Garage Support

Post a Response

Technical Data - Advice required #

Posted by Tony Marco on February 4, 2015, 10:04 am

Year of Manufacture *: N/A
( Optional ) Engine Code or CC: N/A

Im in need for a technical data base. ive narrowed it down to 3 that i like the look off but wondered if any one has used them.

We're a small workshop and 80% of our work is general service and car maintenance to cars which are between 5-10 years old.

On average we do one or two diagnostic work a month where we will need wire diagrams and possible guided diagnostics.

The 3 ive been looking at are:
Auto data, Haynes pro and Auto vista.

ive used auto data in the passed but find it a bit expensive now a days. what is the content like in the last two??
Any any feedback is appreciate!!

Thanks

Re: Data base advice!!

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 4, 2015, 10:32 am, in reply to "Data base advice!!"

Hi Marco

Majority on here probably use Autodata, it is expensive but it's a necessary expense in this industry, yes it has holes in it's data which will probably get worse as more manufactures withhold tech data which Autodata could previously purchase an sell to us in their own format

Haynes Pro is not available in the UK (don't ask me why)

E3technical and AutoVista are the same (same data) just different interfaces (on green and one blue), but all the data in these two platforms are actually supplied by Haynes Pro (formerley Vivid WorkshopData)

So in theory you only have a choice of two

This was recently posted on the Sponsors forum

http://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk5/msg/1422879909.html

Not sure if anyone on here is using, if they are perhaps a bit of feed back

HTH

Peter
PS: I personally have been using AutoVista for the last 3 years+, I do not use AutoData

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Tony Bickers <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 4, 2015, 9:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Data base advice!!"

Well, I have been with AD for years with a split licence ,I used the old CD version on a laptop and that suited my needs, now,of course, the CD versions have been switched off and the only access now is online,this is where my troubles start !

Times out if left on for any period of time,

Cannot access full cambelt replacement pictures, can only get half a page of the drawings,

Same with wiring diagrams,once active scrolling activated, can only access half of the displayed diagram,and the active scrolling is out of sync,

E-mailed AD saying I wanted access back to my old CD that at least worked, they cannot be bothered to reply,

I will not be renewing my sub this year, looks like I will be giving you a call Peter to get Autovista, sad state of affairs with AD !

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 5, 2015, 3:03 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Kevin Apps

Hi Tony

If you are running AD on windows what system are you using, it's much more user friendly on XP.

Auto-vista can be a pain if you forget to log out, you either have to phone them to unlock it (which does not take long but still a pain)or you wait until midnight and it re-set automatically.

Kev.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 5, 2015, 9:52 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

Hi

I agree Autodata online is not as user friendly as the CD version, although I do find it very useable.

The timing out issue is a pain... I have kind of found you can over come the issue in either 2 ways.

Using AD with google chrome will ask if you want it to save your password and then when you are logged out you just then have to press login and the details are already filled in.

I have started using Password box, I think it is great. This also remembers your password. Although you have to still login and select your vehicle again, I find it is quicker and minimizes the stress.

Password box works almost perfect using google chrome but is a bit sketchy on internet explorer.

Hi Tony

I was having some strange problems with Autodata online with wiring diagram scrolling ect. The main problem I had was the info in 'Technical data' was missing and replaced with ???????, or something similar.

I phoned AD and they had me change some settings in compatibility mode which made the software much more fluent and user friendly
Im not suggesting yours is the same fault but just thought I would mention it because I know how it can knock your game off when your trying to find a fault whilst fighting with your Info systems.

Regards
James

Re:problems with AD

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2015, 9:26 am, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

Just to add to this...

I also find using AD & wiring diagrams on the iPad works really well when you are on the job

James

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Nick Favell <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3407' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2015, 1:04 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Nicholas Favell

As I have a Bosch KTS, I am starting to find my way around ESI,

It's worth a look at if you get a chance.

But I don't know the price of it on it's own.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by John Ritchie <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2638' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2015, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
John Ritchie

I have E3 & find that good for me, i gave up with the compromise that AD had with windows 8, they didn't seem interested in a proper fix.
Kevin i know where your coming from but we are paying good money which should include windows 8.
I tried Autovista & found it frustrating when it timed out which i haven't had with E3.
If there is something you need & E3 hasn't got it, there is a link for tech support which so far they haven't let me down

Regards

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Keith Simpson <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2015, 11:03 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

If it's wiring diagrams your after etc. I normaly buy them from Ebay different manufacturers on disc etc. BMW, Mini, Renault, theres lots out there to be had.

Keith

Manufacturer websites

Posted by Kris Gordon <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3696' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2015, 9:16 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

I use autodata, and it's def worth if you make use of it, nut more recently I have been accessing manufacturers own sites in which you pay an hourly, daily, monthly or yearly subscription, there a lot more info to be had, I usually for an hour and print as much as I can for what I need.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Paul Gunstone <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5530' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2015, 9:22 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

Autodata is very user friendly, but at £954inc a year now, it's very expensive. Bosch ESI tech package is ok, but at over £1100 + vat it's mega expensive & a lot of it is Autodata written into the Bosch platform, so the same failings in Autodata are also present in Bosch ESI! Alldata is the most accurate you will find as all data is licensed from the VM's, but at present it's a bit hard to navigate & does have some holes in it. Saying that though, it is getting better all the time & at £754inc per year is quite reasonable. HGS data is pretty good & at £499 + vat per year is well worth it (I think it's still £295 + vat for new users?) Do any of you fellow members actually realise that HGS data is actually "Tolerance Data" under license to Hella? I can't comment on E3 or Autovista as I only used the demo versions, but thought it was quite expensive for it's content? If all else fails, there are still dealer portal subscriptions, which are as good as it gets, but can be super expensive! This is just my opinion gents & please remember, opinions will always vary on these data products! Gunner

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Jon Morgan <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3190' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2015, 9:43 am, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

As an example of using Alldata...
I logged onto Alldata this week for the first time in months to see if it was getting better, the first thing I noticed was the MK6 Golf is now listed (bonus) but half the variants are greyed out.

I wasn't looking for MK6 Golf info however I was looking for a TPI on the Tiguan CBAB engine for P0403 logging (a common issue on 2.0 CR VAG.)

I knew the tpi existed and has done for quite some time, it is now on its 5th revision.

Alldata had no records of this TPI which states to replace the entire EGR circuit & update the engine software via SVM.

So the question is, if you get one of these vehicles in and use the bulletin systems on Bosch, AD, Alldata etc & none of them have this issue listed, how much time & how many repeat visits does your customer have to make to resolve this problem?
How does it affect your workshops reputation?
Who pays the bill?
What do you tell the customer when in exasperation you ask for help on a forum & are told of the "correct fix" for this fault?

All of the aftermarket technical information providers are inaccurate, out of date & have the potential to damage your workshops reputation by providing inaccurate, out of date or completely missing yet highly relevant & important information.

Paying the subs to the manufacturers websites is the only way to safeguard yourself against all of these products - The aftermarket data providers can not keep up with the current levels of information being flooded into the trade across all manufacturers.

I have fixed a number of cars over the phone recently for other workshops purely because they are using innacurate wiring diagrams, bulletins, fuse charts etc.....

I hope i'm not coming across as holier than thou as some try to do on here by saying manufacturer only is the only way- but really, honestly, specialising in one product enables me to see just how bad these aftermarket data providers are.

erWin is a fiver a pop or comes with the VAG diagnostic platform to use while diagnosing a fault whilst online & connected to a vehicle.

If I was unsure whether my info was wrong on one of the other providers, i'd pay the fiver & make sure.

We subscribe to AD, Esi & have a gifted Alldata subscription - I use none of these anymore.
AD is used by reception to build jobsheets, Esi was part of the KTS package, Alldata is a comprehensive waste of time on VAG.

hth,

Jon

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Ian Slattery <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1196' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2015, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

I also use manufactures websites. But unfortunately on etis there seems to be one for the aftermarket and one for the dealers. There seems to be alot of tsb's missing.

Ford IDS eTIS and TSB's #- Martin Kelly April 7, 2011, 11:11 pm

You can search this in the
Diagnostic Equipment & Tools Forum

Regards Ian.

Re:problems with AD

Another example of the manufacturers not complying with B.E then Ian?

VAG seem quite well behaved in this area except the fact you have to pay to log a Digital Service Record on Audi & Skoda which is in contravention of B.E regs.

I still think you have the best chance of obtaining the most accurate info for the aftermarket off the manufacturer websites though & this can be invaluable in not falling into a big hole provided by missing or incorrect information by one of the other data providers.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Paul Gunstone <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5530' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2015, 10:59 am, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Paul Gunstone

I agree whole heartedly with you guys on both points you make, especially with the failings of the aftermarket data providers. I think if you do specialise, then you need dealer tools & dealer information to be able to offer a full specialist service. I have also found a few dealer sites that seem to give the aftermarket a reduced level of access to data, which does bring into question the validity of BER? BER......Now there is a subject that I am sure may have opinions on? lol Gunner

Re:problems with AD

I do agree its the best place to go for the best information.

Regards Ian.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2015, 12:59 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Lee Mackintosh

Jon,

at least autologic gifted you alldata, I wasn't even offered it or aware of it unitl I was told about it by another AL user. Ok I'm out of subs now but wasn't at the time. (About 2 months left).

I tried using a couple of manufacturers data and found it difficult to navigate them, but I can say I am thankfull I did log onto Ford ETis before I attemoted to change the gearbox oil on a Galaxy as I was supplied incorrect oil twice.

One lot by Andrew Page and the next by Ford parts. If it wasn't for the part number being listed during the repair procedure I'd not known what was right.

May have been an expensive mistake even though I bought the fluid through Ford parts.

Re:problems with AD

You'll never get past the ineptitude of parts lads who haven't a clue Lee.

TPS once sent us some EP90 for a DSG Oil & Filter change??

At least if you have access to the dealer catalogues you can spot these gaffs before they cost you dear.

I remember it took AD around 2 years to cotton on to the VW 507.000 oils specified for VAG DPF equipped vehicles.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by John Ritchie <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2638' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2015, 3:07 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
John Ritchie

Some very good points raised here & shows how far behind we are in terms of technical data. My understanding was if i paid for a license for Alldata for example, then i could find out what Tpi are present for that fault but like allot of VM sites, we get the scaled down version. As good as a company like Alldata potentially could be, they rely on the VM's giving them all the data which at present doesn't happen.
Is it we have to stick to one brand & do it well like Jon does, or do we have to push the trade organizations for the full information we pay for?, without the full information we can't specialize without compromise !!

Regarding VM's information i am reluctant to put my card number over as i don't feel its very secure, if i pay for something it normally comes up with a secure password but VW for instance doesn't seem to check address etc

Regards
John

Re:problems with AD

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2015, 3:10 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

Hi Jon Morgan

"I wasn't looking for MK6 Golf info however I was looking for a TPI on the Tiguan CBAB engine for P0403 logging (a common issue on 2.0 CR VAG.)

I knew the tpi existed and has done for quite some time, it is now on its 5th revision.

Alldata had no records of this TPI which states to replace the entire EGR circuit & update the engine software via SVM."

I do not have VAG on alldata but I was under the impression that if you put an info request in with AllData then they would get you the relevant information if it was not on the software.

I was curious, if you get time, could you pop an info request to AllData and see if they come back with the relevant TPI.

I sent a request for a Ford TPI that I knew existed and they sent it me via email within 10 mins... I was on a trial at the time so they were probably trying to impress, I think that maybe why they were so quick. Others have told me they have waited 24hrs for the request to come back

Regards
James

EDIT:

Everybody I have spoken to says that Alldata is hard to navigate and I agree
I have found that the search function, after you have selected your vehicle seems to work well

Also, I have been informed by Alldata that they are working hard on a new software that will be a lot easier to navigate and will be universal across all brands. So if you want to find a pollen filter location for example, it will take you the same amount of clicks wheter it is on a renault or a BMW. Time will tell.

James

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Jon Morgan <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3190' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2015, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

Hi James Eardley,

I think initially there's a point to be made about the Tiguan EGR fault.
How am I to know that there is a bulletin available relating to a P0403 problem to request it? In order to request info I need to know about it. Surely the point of Alldata is to have all the bulletins on the relevant manufacturers technical information page for that model?
If I didn't have my own information source that I know & trust (erWin) I wouldn't have known about the Tiguan EGR valve.
There be a huge hole here in the way Alldata works, if it is your only information source, you're flying blind.

If I need info on Air Con Capacities & Tyre Pressures and they aren't there I can put a request in to the technical information request team as I know they should be there - but bulletins are different, you NEED them to be there or how would you know what to request?

Being a little bit anal, when I was first gifted Alldata by Autologic I put it through its paces & concluded it was utter shit, having had a look at it recently it now appears it is elevated to being 'just shit'.

I found current flow diagrams with no current track numbers on the bottom & consequently unnavigable. I requested Technical Bulletins I new existed in English to be sent in English & they sent them to me in German. I had Software bulletins sent to me with half the software tables missing or incomplete (the whole section of the table with the new software versions was missing). Each time they sent me incomplete, inaccurate & incorrect language documents I asked for them to be sent again but this time complete or in a language I know & understand.

Alldatas response went along the lines of (wait for it) Skoda only issue bulletins in German - that was an entertaining claim. I emailed them back & asked if all UK Skoda dealers spend all day on Google Translating technical documents? They were adamant & a bit snotty with their reply that German is the only language in which Skoda bulletins are released onto erWin?
Thats wrong by the way, I use erWin regularly & they are available in English.
The incomplete current flow diagrams I have displayed at a meeting we were both at when AL first gifted Alldata to us, I proved there that the diagram was available in a complete form, but Alldata stated it wasn't.
The missing software tables - Alldata told me that is how they're displayed on erWin, again I had the documents to hand in a complete form - they need a better pdf printer....

The biggest thing with Alldata that grates is the conversations I have had with (Make Me) Abid at Alldata, where he pretends to listen to the issues and at the end of the conversation tries to flog me the complete package??

There is also their marketing campaign of 'complete unedited manufacturers information'
Far from complete unfortunately - granted its getting better 6 months ago there were huge holes in the model lists for VAG, now they are listed but with huge holes in the data available.

The last gasp of a desperate salesperson stood with his product stripped bare with all the ugly bits exposed is to use the "there are big changes on the way" tactic - something a lot of Autologic users know only too well. I'm not interested in what may or may not be on the way, (these all new and amazing modifications often leave me underwhelmed when they're released). I have to make a decision on what its like when I use it currently & currently it wastes more time than it saves.

Give it a couple of years and it may be worth it, but for me to spend all day looking for something in a product that advertises itself as complete isn't worth the effort - pay the fiver & look it up on erWin, it's there, it's up to date, it's accurate & it's useable.

Bad, out of date, incomplete or just plain missing technical data wastes time & leads you up the garden path - life's too short.

I hope you're keeping well

Jon.

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Paul Gunstone <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5530' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2015, 8:45 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Paul Gunstone

Evening Jon. Sorry to change the subject & hijack the thread slightly, but would you be so kind as to give me a pointer towards getting a VAG OrgID from them? I have emailed them maybe half a dozen times in the last 12 months, both the German & UK VAG contacts, but have never been able to obtain the elusive OrgID Many thanks, Gunner

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Jon Morgan <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3190' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2015, 9:21 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Jon Morgan

Email sent Paul

Re:problems with AD

Posted by Paul Gunstone <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5530' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2015, 9:32 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"
Paul Gunstone

Thanks Jon, Much appreciated, Gunner

Re:problems with AD

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2015, 9:51 pm, in reply to "Re:problems with AD"

Evening Jon

I'm doing good thanks, hope you are too.

That's a cracking reply mate, thanks for taking the time to provide such great info and share your experiences.

I Just recently had a couple of weeks trial with Alldata and ended up opting just to take the 3 free manufactures that are supplied by AL.
I didn't really get much chance to put it through its paces but I thought at the time (for my situation) it wasn't worth investing.

The 'request info' function did interest me and that is why I was curious for you to send a request off... Seems like it is more hassle than it is worth.

It appears that Alldata have got a lot of work to do if they are to design a totally new software interface and to fix all the holes and incomplete data.

Thanks again mate

James