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Ford Scorpio 2.3 1997 - Immobiliser LED not illuminating, will not turn over, PATS? #

Posted by Lee Pritchard on May 11, 2011, 11:43 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 1997
( Optional ) Engine Code or CC: 2300

Hello all,

I currently have a problem with the above vehicle,the immobiliser/alarm led in the centre of the dash will not illuminate.Non start.

Nothing has been done to the vehicle,customer came to the vehicle in the morning and a non start which was a bit of a pain because its the local hearse and was needed for work that morning!!

When turning the key the starter does not turn,no feed to the starter,fuel pump does not run,no spark.checked all the fuses,vehicle earths,Checked the wiring diagram,i earthed the starter relay circuit,so it turned over with the key.also energised the fuel pump,still no start.Checked the led for operation.

I have read that the immobiliser are troublesome on these,i am suspecting the immobiliser unit,looked inside the unit,no obvious burn marks,but i do not have a wiring diagram for the immobiliser circuit to check for power and grounds etc before i condemn it.Also if the immobiliser unit is faulty does a new one have to be programmed in?Any info or advice would be much appreciated.

Regards lee

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 12, 2011, 6:29 am, in reply to "Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Mark Carter

Hi Lee,
Is this the one behind the glove box?

1997 means that it should be pats II. The system stops the engine ECU from switching the injectors as well as stopping the starter motor.

I should have a wiring diagram somewhere, I will try to look it out.

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Lee Pritchard <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1074' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 12, 2011, 7:43 am, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Lee Pritchard

Hi mark,

yes it is the one behind the glove box,99gg-19a366-ae is the part number if that is any help,is this immobiliser able to be bypassed like the bosch one?yes it does cut the starter and the injectors do not fire when i crank it over with the starter relay bypassed.

regards lee

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 14, 2011, 11:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Mark Carter

Hi Lee, as far as I know it can not be by passed as some of the other ones can.

What is the fault code logged ?

Regards Mark

PS. if it helps the led should flash the code out three times after the ignition is turned on.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Steve Harrison <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1363' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 15, 2011, 4:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Stephen Harrison

Lee / Mark

Is this the unit that used to blow one of the transistors off the board (such a long time it may be a diode / resistor or even a different system). On those if you gave the unit a shake you could hear it rattling inside.

Might be the memory playing up though.

Mark - Are you well?

Steve

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Lee Pritchard <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1074' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 15, 2011, 5:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Lee Pritchard

Hi mark/steve,

Thanks for the reply,ive managed to borrow the genuine ford immobiliser manual yesterday for this vehicle.(which is a really descriptive manual)

From what ive made out its a `pats 2` system which immobilises the starter and the EEC-v module,and there is a `coded scp message` between the pats and the EEC-V.so i do not think it cannot be bypassed unlike the pats1.

Mark,the led light on the dash doesnt illuminate at all under any condition,i have tested the led and there is 12v coming to the bulb but the pats will not illuminate it.And you were right in saying that it stops the injectors from working,as i have 12v at the injectors but doesnt earth when i try to start after bypassing the starter relay.

I have checked for and power and ground and they are fine,which is leading me to the pats as being faulty.

Steve,i have pulled the unit out and cannot see anything obvious blown.From what i have read in the manual the unit needs to be programmed in,so since i do not have IDS/wds i think that it will have to go to the dealer.(i hate saying that,ids is on top of my `wanted toys` list now,had a transit 05 plate which i couldn't code pump begining of the week also

.)

Thanks for you replies,

Regards lee

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 15, 2011, 7:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Mark Carter

Hi Lee,
Thats what I thought, its not as straight forward as having IDS either, I seem to remember the Pats system having its own three pin diagnostic plug that was by the N/S/F "A" pillar on the early ones which means you need the special harness.

With regard to your pump issue, the KTS will re-programe these, again with a special harness.

Steve,
Hi mate, I'm good thanks, How are you? are you back down my way any time soon?

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Lee Pritchard <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1074' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 15, 2011, 8:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"
Lee Pritchard

Hi mark,

Not a simple procedure to do then.my modis does program pumps up to 03,it says its coded access on the later ones.How does the kts get around this?

On another note,im just being nosy

ive noticed that you mention bosch in a lot of your posts,are you anything to do with them?

Regards lee

Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 16, 2011, 7:35 am, in reply to "Re: Ford scorpio Immobiliser led not illuminating,wont turn over.PATS"

Hi Lee,

The KTS "Talks" directly to the pump (special harness) and removes the stored code.

The pump is now "as new" and is matched to the PCM on the next cycle of the Ignition.

With regard to you being nosy,yes, I deliver some technical training for them.

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

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