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Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Jon Speller on March 12, 2011, 6:53 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2008
( Optional ) Engine Code or CC: 1.4

The car will not start although it has fuel and a spark?? battery is fully charged , if i unplug the fuel pump it very nearly starts, but when connected it does not even try but still cranks!!i have tried to tow it off with the pump on but it does not start, i have no fault codes in oedb?? i have tested the injecters and they all work, i think the pump is possibly over fuelling??

Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 12, 2011, 7:06 pm, in reply to "peugeot 207 , wont start flooding"

Jon
Contaminated fuel ? No Mention of a compression test. What scanner ? don,t rely on eobd to give all codes.
Kev.
ps the pump its self cannot over fuel,what is the rail pressure ?

Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding

Posted by jon speller User icon on March 12, 2011, 7:19 pm, in reply to "Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding"

i am using the solus pro 10.4 i did think of bad fuel but then thought why would it try to start with out the pump connected, i did go through manufacturers setting but it didnt give me anything, i am due to go back on monday for a compression test, i also have a vantage pro but my knolegde of using this is limited as i am waiting for course, the only other comment i could make at this time is the windows stop working??

Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding

Posted by martin simonsohn User icon on March 12, 2011, 8:13 pm, in reply to "Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding"
Martin Simonsohn

take a look in live data at engine temp as it could be causing an over fuel,also you need to take a look at fuel pressure as not enough pressure will cause the fuel to dribble into the cylinder and not a nice spray/atomise as well as checking the exaust/cat for blockage a quick test of the exhaust i sometimes do is to remove the o2 sensor and see if it fires up, air
filter??
ps i had a v40 doing exactly the same last year it had had loads of new parts fitted by a few different garages but none had checked fuel pressure/delevery and it turned out to be the filter blocked
hth martin

Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 12, 2011, 8:20 pm, in reply to "Re: peugeot 207 , wont start flooding"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Jon,

Injector duration will be of interest.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by jon speller User icon on March 14, 2011, 8:48 pm, in reply to "Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"

update, the o2 sensors passed the test through the scanners self test. i have found out the temp sensor connector is broken, it only has 1 wire and it needed soldering,, if this is the problem why did the solus not pick it up?? i have left the customer with a list of things he needs to get before i return, just hope its the temp sensor,i have written the results as they were on solus, on cranking,still no dtcs

engine speed 672
injection time(8.190)ms
injection cut off during deceleration ???
coolant temp 165.5 this cannot be correct
ignition advance 3.6
coil 1/4 charging time ms 11.23
coil 2/3 charging time ms 11.23
throttle position voltage mv 58.83
manifold presure mbar 16
air temp degrees c 18

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 14, 2011, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

Evening Jon,

Do not ever recall seeing a CTS with only one wire although I am not familiar with this model. Normally I find a CTS showing "engine hot" will only cause bad starting from cold and will cause crappy running until engine is hot. Will try and dig something out of AD tomorrow unless someone comes along in the interim to clarify.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Lee Mackintosh User icon on March 14, 2011, 9:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Lee Mackintosh

Engine cranking speed seems rather high to me. Sometimes you can have 2 temperature sensors, a single wire for temp gauge and the 2 wire for engine management.

I think Peugeot do this to.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 14, 2011, 10:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Kevin Apps

Jon
RPM cranking is high as Lee states !
Manifold pressure 16 mille bars ! ! !
One wire sensor (over-heat switch ?) do the fan,s run if earthed (earthed from memory)
Kev.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 14, 2011, 11:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

Hi John,

Think this thing needs a compression test. They tend to crank a lot quicker with no compressions.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 14, 2011, 11:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Kevin Apps

Pete
Rings, valves etc must be in good shape to get 16 millibars on the inlet

Kev.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 15, 2011, 9:50 am, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

Kev,

Maybe. But do you trust everything your scanner tells you? I don't. Take the RPM and CTS readings for example.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 15, 2011, 4:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Jon,

The CTS has 2 wires as I thought. I know we all have our different ways of approaching problems, but when I have to deal with a non-starter I check the basic 3 elements first, ie: has it got a spark, has it got fueling and then has it got compressions? The answers to these will send you down the correct diagnostic route and thats then when I get my scanner out.

Best of luck

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 15, 2011, 6:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Kevin Apps

Hi Pete
I tend to trust my sacnners, but then i don,t use a Snappy.
My above post was "tonque in cheek" as 16 millibars is one hell of a vacuum.
Kev.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 15, 2011, 7:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Kev,

Will take your word for that. If I have to measure vacuum under cranking then I am more acquainted with "hg but have not done that for years. Regarding mis-leading readings etc from scanners, you must be one of the lucky ones because these forums are full of techs complaining about info or lack of info from their very expensive scanners. Most of the info I get from mine is good but it can throw up the odd spurious piece of info. Hence my caution. However, this is not helping Jon and I reiterate that a compression test should be done to determine which diagnostic path to follow.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by scantec100 User icon on March 15, 2011, 8:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Jo Speller

thanks for your help up to now i will get a compression test done thursday cheers

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 15, 2011, 9:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Kevin Apps

Jon
Good idea, but put a VAC gauge on the inlet as well, and take a fuel sample and test it.
How where the injectors tested ? Too many vague test results in your post.
Kev.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Mark Carter User icon on March 15, 2011, 10:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Mark Carter

Hi Pete,
Just to second what Kevin said about the MAP reading, 16mb would equal 29.057 Inches of mercury.
I totally agree with your advise on the three basics, but at the same time if some of the data is wrong, can we believe any of it?
Let's see what the compression test shows us.

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 15, 2011, 11:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

.....exactly Mark... which is why I always proceed with caution when I get my "thingy" out..

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Mark Robins User icon on March 16, 2011, 11:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Mark Robins

I had similar problem with Renault 2.0 sport, It turned out to be a faulty MAP sensor. What does the MAP sensor say at atmospheric (no cranking)?
Check map sensor against Vacuum gauge, Map, temp and throttle position are the main inputs for fueling.

Mark

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Steve Scott User icon on March 17, 2011, 5:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"

Hi,

I would check the valve timing very carefully.

My money is on the Cam sprocket moved.

Cheers

Doc...

Autoelectronix UK Ltd.
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Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Tommy Forrest User icon on March 17, 2011, 6:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Thomas Forrest

Could the higher crank speed be a result of bore wash if the vehicle is over fuelling ?
Would this then be highlighted with a lower than expected compression.

Sorry if this seems irrelevant, just thinking out loud.

Tommy

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by jon speller User icon on March 22, 2011, 5:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"

compression 190 across the board,solus did not give me a fuel pump presure to choose,it seems all over the place it said idle speed 3370 and it was sat there with the ignition on only,checked for blockage on exhaust and airflow all seem ok,the customer said the fuse box had water in which is why it was changed , but it stopped working before this was changed,
Is there a way of testing the ecu to see if it is faulty,if not the ecu i suspect pump or regulater which is in the tank, it is massively over fueling?? after that i dont know

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 22, 2011, 7:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Kevin Apps

Jon.
"it seems all over the place it said idle speed 3370 and it was sat there with the ignition on only", Wrong ECU selection ! ! i,m sure even the Solus is not that bad.

"it is massively over fueling??" you need to put a pressure gauge on the rail, what is the injector duration ? Have you tested the fuel?
Kev.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by jo speller User icon on March 22, 2011, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Jo Speller

on the other ecu choice it read 660 ?? and yes tested the fuel and just in case i drained the tank and put some new fuel, i had it started today briefly with out the fuel pump plugged,
The new information is that the windows, radio and heater fan dont work but once you have removed and refit the shunt fuse it is ok untill you crank it then they stop working , the interior heater fan does not work .....the plot thickens ,

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by aidan User icon on March 22, 2011, 8:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Aidan Birley

Hi

I agree with kev, classic wrong software

If this is a 208 it is quite possible that your snapper does not appropriate ECU software yet !!

You should get reliable but limited info from EOBD, failing that your must get this on a suitable scanner.

cheers Aidan

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Bryan Smith User icon on March 22, 2011, 8:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"

Jon
I agree fully with Kevin. Confirm engine code first. Not sure what you mean about other ecu choice as Solus usually gives Peugeot engine codes on the selection menu. The code is the 6th, 7th and 8th (I think) letters of the VIN No: eg. KFW, NFU etc.
You have only mentioned checking codes and I assume data, within EOBD. Have you tried Peugeot specific? Solus is not perfect (which generic scan tool is?) on PSA, but I normally find the ecu selection straight forward.
I know you are probably getting bogged down with suggestions but how have you confirmed the spark?
Bryan
Sorry Aiden, our posts crossed.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Pete Mutlow User icon on March 22, 2011, 9:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Jon,

Kev has asked for the injection duration but that has been answered by you earlier with 8.1 ms. However, as previously noted some of the readings you are getting from your scanner are unrealistic and therefore I would want to measure the duration direct from the injector connection to either a scope or multi-meter. Assuming the fuel pressure has been verified as correct then my guess would be that the injectors are been held open too long by the ECU. If it is massively overfuelling as you suggest, then I do not think a faulty MAP sensor would be the culprit. Finally, assuming you get this sorted, consideration should be given to change the oil.
Best of Luck

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Mark carter User icon on March 22, 2011, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Mark Carter

Hi Jo,

As others have said you must get this vehicle on a scanner that gives you credible info.

But that aside, you stated in an earlier post
>>> yes tested the fuel and just in case i drained the tank and put some new fuel<<<

Can I ask you how you tested the fuel system ?

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Kevin Apps User icon on March 22, 2011, 10:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Kevin Apps

Jon
"the interior heater fan does not work .....the plot thickens"
Classic faulty ignition switch on PSA, unlikey to be your running problem but will need testing.
Kev.

Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #

Posted by Steve Harvey User icon on March 23, 2011, 8:07 am, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 207 1.4 2008 - Will not start, flooding #"
Steve Harvey

"Jon
"the interior heater fan does not work .....the plot thickens"
Classic faulty ignition switch on PSA, unlikey to be your running problem but will need testing.
Kev. "
I doubt if the heater fan will work on this without the engine running!
Regards Steve Harvey

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