Washington Wrestling Message Board

Washington Wrestling Message Board
[ Washington Wrestling Message Board ]

4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/5/2025, 10:29 am

Here are the updated rankings. Please let me know if I've missed something. I've had some personal issues going on and I apologize for the delay in rankings.

Updated 4A Rankings

Updated 3A Rankings

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Dave G on 2/5/2025, 11:44 am, in reply to "4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Wow! Thank you so much for making the time to do this. Best wishes on the personal issues.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Well on 2/5/2025, 8:54 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Aisak fetters of Curtis beat Harshman earlier this season

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/6/2025, 6:57 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Yes, I am aware, thanks for the info. But I am not sure why you're comparing these two as I have them in two different weight classes. But since I know Fetters is going 113 post season, I'll entertain your statement.

As I've stated previously over the last 10+ years I've been doing this, that head-to-head is NOT the only criteria I use when ranking wrestlers. One of the more pressing criteria items I look at is who you've beaten and who you've lost to, tournament finishes, strength of wrestlers, etc. Here is what I have for Harshman and Fetters respectively. I could keep going if you'd like....with every kid in every weight class :-)

Hoyt Harshman - Sumner (9)

Wins:
Rodriguez-Cepeda #8 (4A)
Wilson #5 (3A)
Garza #3 (4A)
Chavez #2 (1A)
Sternod #5 (4A)
Obispo #7 (4A)
Clark #5 (2A)
Johnson #2 (Oregon 6A)
Marshall #7 (Oregon 6A)
Danks #2 (Oregon 5A)
Kiser #14 (Oregon 4A)
Welsick #6 (Oregon 5A)

Losses:
Dawley #1 (4A)
McEwen #1 (3A)
Sanchez #1 (Oregon 6A)
Fetters #10 (4A)

Aizak Fetters - Curtis (9)

Wins:
Chupa #6 (3A)
Harshman #2 (4A)
Ruiz #5 (3A)

Losses:
Windsor #3 (3A)
Tughan #9 (4A)
Manibusan-Bamba #7 (4A)

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Old Dad on 2/6/2025, 7:03 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

What happened at 144 to make the shake up?

1 Israel Acosta – Gonzaga Prep 11 1 2 *
2 Daeton Johnson – Chiawana 12 2 1 2
3 Andrew Gray – Battle Ground 10 6 * *
4 Noah Koyama – Union 12 1 2 3

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/6/2025, 7:20 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Shake up? The only adjustment made was Acosta coming down a weight class. Good thing is, the wrestlers get to settle all arguments. My rankings don't matter.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Old Dad on 2/6/2025, 7:33 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

I thought Noah had been #1 all season long, maybe I missed something.

Either way it is a good bracket to watch!

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/6/2025, 7:57 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Koyama hasn't been #1 since my opening ranking on 12-27-24.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 2/6/2025, 10:09 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Many of these divisions are mix and match at 1 through 4. Some are not, but in this case I don't think anyone would consider Noah Koyama a longshot to win state. I would put him neck and neck with the kid from Chiawana, even though Koyama has beat him this year.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Old Dad on 2/6/2025, 10:24 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

That is my point as well, Noah and Daeton have wrestled in the finals last year so how is Noah 4th, either way it is gonna be fun to watch!

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Lost on 2/6/2025, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

He lost to 3rd place kid one time, but has since beat him twice. So not sure why he is ranked below him.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 2/6/2025, 10:47 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

I noticed this too, and thought he had redeemed himself after Gray took Noah and Gibson out at Gut Check. Gray seems to be a very good wrestler, but was being dominated by both guys, but both wrestlers got caught by him.

I personally would have put Noah in front of Gray and Daeton, but again...the mat won't lie. There are so few spots from their district hopefully they all get a chance at State.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by C'mon man on 2/27/2025, 10:38 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

I trusted Humint and he was right. Maybe Johnson or Gray would've been a better matchup for Acosta in the finals rather than Koyama. Noah didn't look like himself, but that's probably because Izzy was so dominate.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Dave G on 2/6/2025, 9:13 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

There is a saying: In God we trust, all else bring data.

Humint One definitely "brings the data" and I trust in him to have it down. Thanks again for the update.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by It's Close on 2/6/2025, 10:29 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Koyama has beaten Gray 3 times and lost to him once.

Koyama has beaten Johnson once and has not lost to him this year.

Gray has lost to Johnson once and has yet to beat him.

Koyama's loses: Colby Ducatt (Boney Lake), Andrew Gray (Battle Ground)

Gray's Loses: Noah Koyama x3 (union), Teague Brown (Syracuse), Daeton Johnson (Chiawana), Patrick Halpin (Capital),

Johnson's loses: Landyn Philpott (La Pine), Noah Koyama (Union), Alan Salguero (Orting)

It's a tough weight class with those 4, including Acosta. Glad it's decided on the mat.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Dave G on 2/6/2025, 12:33 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Yes, they all get settled on the mat, and that is a good thing. Good luck to all this coming weekend.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Mike Jackson on 2/14/2025, 8:00 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

So who should be ranked #1 at 113

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Lake on 2/6/2025, 6:59 pm, in reply to "4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Did you not see that Brody Hanson beat Obispo 16-3 at the Viking Invite for 3rd at 113?

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by East side on 2/6/2025, 7:24 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Don't expect to see Mead or Chiawana winning it this year. They're going to knock each other off at the state qualifier. There are too many tough teams in the mcc and gsl to get the depth out to win it all

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by C’mon Man on 2/6/2025, 8:25 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Who else has he beat? First I’ve heard of him. I trust Humint, his track record has been pretty spot on for quite a while now.

You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by CBBN Fan on 2/6/2025, 8:58 pm, in reply to "4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Nice job HUMINT, but you absolutely missed one- Deangelo Negrete from Wenatchee is not even ranked in 4A. Check out his resume:

24-3 4A 120

Wins:
Zaiden Gonzalez 10-4 4A #4
Joshua Larkins 9-7 3A #3

Losses:
Adrian Shima 4-1 3A 126 #3
Zaiden Gonzales 1-0 4A #4
Ricardo Lara SV 8-5 B #4

You do a fantastic job, but it's fun to let you know when you miss one, my friend.

Thank you taking the time to put this together!

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/7/2025, 7:02 am, in reply to "You missed one HUMINT ONE"

Oh I didn't miss him, he's definitely been on my radar for sure.

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by CBBN Fan on 2/7/2025, 6:36 pm, in reply to "Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE"

I've been on this site for over 10 years and your rankings have devolved into more of an ego play. You have a tough job and you dedicate your time - something I have always appreciated. However, you can be wrong sometimes. You need to encourage dialogue and celebrate folks you offer differing opinions and provide facts.
An example:
Your ranking of Noah Koyama it utterly ridiculous. When folks presented facts regarding Koyama you discuss quickly dismiss and Dave G comes to your rescue.

This will be be my last post on this site regarding regarding rankings. When I present evidence on one wrestler and your comment is utterly dismissive, you lose your credibility. I can provide evidence of wrestlers with 8 plus losses in 4A 120, but I chose not to put names to these young warriors.

As said a few years ago that all state ranking systems have exact formulas that define how the rankings are calculated, except this site. I usually do not care except this sites rankings are used in publications.

As I bid you adieu, I leave you with one message. Encourage dialogue and feedback. It's OK for people to provide feedback since your subjective opinion is not based on a concise formula, it then becomes open to opinion.

Keep up the great work HUMINT ONE - I respect what you do.

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/10/2025, 8:09 am, in reply to "Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE"

I appreciate your feedback, as well as everyone else's who has done the same. I've never been dismissive, I can say that for certain. I read every post and every email sent in with data and opinions on it. I definitely do not have an 'ego' regarding ranking these kids, as I have zero skin in the game. I use my own formula, based on facts and evidence. And you have NO IDEA how I formulate my rankings. So how can you say it's a subjective opinion? Maybe you should have asked before falsely claiming you know how I operate. I'm happy to give up my 10+ hours a week doing these rankings if you think you can do a better job?? Every ranker is wrong at one point or another, I'm not trying to be perfect, just accurate. I don't need anyone coming to my rescue either, I let me past rankings speak for themselves.

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 2/10/2025, 9:00 am, in reply to "Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE"

Anyone who's been around knows you are the most consistent and accurate with your rankings. There's been a few times I have disagreed and I was right, but more often than not...you were correct in your assessments.

It would be cool to know your formula just so others could understand or make it reproducible in the future.

If I was going to start a formula I would begin by classifying tournaments.

e.g. 5 star tournaments - in and out of season - 5 star - Nationals, Preseason Nationals, Doc Buchanan

4 star tournaments - Tri State, Gut Check, Edmonds, Rose City

3 Star - Hammerhead etc...

2 Star - JV territory

Success at these tournaments would be the basis for determining weight of wins.

Next would be an attempt to find out head to head between a stellar wrestler who wins 3 4 star tournaments, vs a stellar kid who comes in 2nd at a 5 star etc.

Fun stuff, but keeping it consistent and gathering the initial data, then of course rinsing and repeating across all kids, changing weight classes and schools...it's an undertaking no doubt.

One piece I might consider, and have it be the lowest rung, is public opinion. It would account for 5%, and my personal opinion(providing I've been paying attention like you have for years), and have reviewed matches for accuracy, or seen kids in the practice room etc...10% would be subjective opinion movement.

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by Dave G on 2/10/2025, 1:23 pm, in reply to "Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE"

I think you summed it up pretty well about how it has been done on this site for 20+ years of rankings. Usually, the long term rankers like Humint, The Girls ranker, Lecher, Marshall, Jeff Cox, even myself during the first 10 years, and too many others to pull out of my memory, all followed patterns like this. I would have my list of 30+ wrestlers per weight in the all-class and would spend every Sunday morning uploading the brackets from my email to the web site. This was all before Trackwrestling so many of the current users probably have no clue how it was back then. I would read the brackets, going from right (champ) to left in the brackets to catch the most important matches, record the significant result in each wrestlers results slot on their spreadsheet record, and then move them around based on the most current head to head result, and tournament placing, etc. As far as nationals, I always looked at that, and that would affect the pre-season rankings, and would give those wrestlers a "head start" in the rankings. This is how most of the rankers do it but they have leeway to research and evaluate as they see fit.

Any way you look at it, it is a tremendous effort by those that are doing the rankings. I wish I could name them all by name, to give them recognition for their service, past and present, that they have done for the wrestling community. A couple of current members list their names, but most prefer to remain anonymous, and all are unbiased. As Humint One said, 10 hours a week for him on 2 groups. It is always a big undertaking and I always try to get the fans to realize the hours these folks put in for you.

I think in this day and age that they are often taken for granted and many people just expect to have rankings for free like it is a constitutional right. Without the folks I mentioned, it doesn't happen, so I hope everyone reading this will take that into consideration. It kind of reminds me of a song long ago by Joni Mitchell with the famous line "you don't know what you got till it's gone..." (young folks, look it up

). I hope you have all enjoyed the ride.

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 2/10/2025, 2:11 pm, in reply to "Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE"

Awesome. I like to hear how it's been done and glad I wasn't too far off.

It takes Humint One 10 hours a week and he KNOWS what he's doing. I can only imagine it would take me 20-25, and someone who isn't wrestling/statistically inclined 40+ to get similarly accurate results.

Glad to know so much time is put in.

What I have noticed is there are so few kids who actually compete nationally, it's hard to keep that activity on the radar, but it's worth it if it can be done.

Re: You missed one HUMINT ONE

Posted by C'mon man on 2/27/2025, 10:35 am, in reply to "You missed one HUMINT ONE"

Looks like Humint didn't miss on Negrete.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Question on 2/10/2025, 11:56 pm, in reply to "4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

For the final 3a/4a rankings before state could you include more wrestlers? Like doing the top 12 or 16 in each weight class for example?

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by The HUMINT One on 2/11/2025, 6:34 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

I would typically rank the top 16, but with this year being an expanded bracket, it makes it a bit tougher. As some may or may not know, I've been managing family health issues for awhile now, and said family member has passed away. With that being said, and an out of country trip next week, I am not certain I will be able to get the 3A done since we have one District yet to wrestle until this weekend. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I do wish every wrestler, team, coach and everyone else involved in Mat Classic good luck this year. For the first time in 20 years I won't be able to attend, but will be watching from afar.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Life on 2/11/2025, 8:25 am, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Life is exhausting sometimes. Thanks for doing what you do. Hope you feel comfort and love. And I’m sorry you will miss state this year.

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Question on 2/27/2025, 3:38 pm, in reply to "4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Heyy Humit I was just wondering if you could do a post mat classic ranking list for 3a and 4a I'm kind of curious past the top 8 wrestlers where everyone stands and it could also be the template used for next season rankings

Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25

Posted by Remove on 2/27/2025, 10:36 pm, in reply to "Re: 4A & 3A Updated Rankings POSTED 2-5-25"

Just remove 12 graders Thats the new rankings.

« Back to index

[ Washington Wrestling Message Board ]