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JV refs going to state.

Posted by A ref on 1/27/2025, 9:01 pm

Coaches you need to contact WOA asap and push for them to drop their two year rule at state for referees. You are getting a bunch of JV level officials and some of the top rated guys aren’t allowed to go. Now that they are taking 72 instead of 36 they need to scrap that rule. This year is going to be awful.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Coach on 1/28/2025, 11:49 am, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

Where is the actual rule coming from?

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by My guess on 1/28/2025, 12:12 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

My guess would be Stordahl? Not sure. But the rule was made two years ago and now it's in effect when they need 72 officials instead of 36. Some associations are sending first year "varsity" guys.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by For real on 1/28/2025, 5:38 pm, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

To A Ref: You sound like one of those refs who believes they are the only ones good enough for state. Well, it is about time old guys like yourself work districts but stay away from the dome. Officiating at state got worse over the years because of guys like you, unwilling to step aside and give the young guys a chance to sink or swim.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Funny on 1/28/2025, 8:16 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

So you want a new official to cut his teeth at the state tournament. Hmm. Makes perfect sense. Supposed to be the best VARSITY wrestlers at state but we should have officials that go to the jv matches all year? You, for real, sound like a moron.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by For real on 1/28/2025, 9:19 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

Every association knew what was going on, there were no secrets. The groups knew to send the personnel who may be going to the best tournaments in the
. I will guess that did not happen. Didn't want to prepare individuals for the biggest three day show in the state. People like A ref thought the state would back down. The 5 P's were not thought of, you know, Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance. This is on the wrestling official groups, not the state.

I am not a moron, I am For Real.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Not true on 1/29/2025, 11:04 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

The associations did not know they were going to 72 officials total until a couple weeks ago. I don't mind the two year rule when there are only 36 officials total. All I'm saying is that now with 72 officials going, and the two year rule, you are dipping down to the 100th best official in the state, and some of them are first year varsity or still JV. One of the guys going this year did not know the overtime rules at a tournament. Have fun with that at state.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Steve Davis on 1/29/2025, 1:20 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

I think this is the biggest reason for some concern from some officials.
The state wants 2 different groups of 36 so there will be no crossover from PODs (3a/4a to 2a/1a/b).

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Ref on 1/28/2025, 9:22 pm, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

I have and will never ref at Mat Classic. It’s a joke on how they evaluate the refs anyways BUT this may be good in a way Mat Classic will not get the same refs they get for the finals and medal matches year in and year out.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Western_WA_Guy on 1/29/2025, 11:06 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

72 !

That's a boat load of Refs.

When you double the size of a tournament like the MAT Classic in one year, there is gonna be some pain. And I thought we were also in the middle of a Ref shortage crisis.

Whistle, Wrist bands, and thick skin... Good to go I guess.

Good luck to you guys, it's gonna be rough.

I'm not a Ref but I smell what you guys are about to step into.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by More than double on 1/29/2025, 11:20 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

Remember they added two girls divisions so there are now 4032 kids competing at the state tournament. That is about 1/3 of all wrestlers in the state based on last year's total of 11706 total wrestlers. There are more now because of the growth of girls wrestling, but put that in perspective.
2023-24
boys wrestlers 8876
girls wrestlers 2830
This is data straight from the NFHS website

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Voice of reason on 1/30/2025, 9:06 am, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

It's a case of "right idea, wrong time."

We needed to force associations to actually rotate, because the "good ol' boy" system that many associations used actively blocked younger officials for years (decades, really - if you're wondering why we have a lack of officials in their 30s and 40s, this is a major reason why).

However, it's unfortunate that the implementation happened to coincide with the year our ref pool was going to double anyway. Really, with this many, it should be "ref 3, sit 1" because in a couple of years, we're going to be hitting the same issue with this current crop.

Which association is sending first year, JV officials? The largest association in the state is sending 12 (out of 35) and they certainly aren't sending any JVs!

Overall, people need to expect regional-caliber officials to get in to the dome this year, just as we are getting regional-caliber wrestlers making it.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by why not on 1/30/2025, 9:25 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

why not have officials from other districts anonymously rate refs, through video review, from different districts, not closely associated with the districts they are from?

I don't really care where the officials are from, as long as it's not Clark County...

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Voice of reason on 1/31/2025, 12:55 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

The real answer is uncomfortable, but honest.

1) There's always going to be a disconnect between the associations, as there is from the coaches. You just bashed on the Clark County refs, where many on this forum bash on the Seattle refs, where the state evaluators tend to rate the refs low from Northern (whatcom/skagit), peninsula, and north-central washington, based on who made the finals the past few years more than others. You also have the kings of the good ol' boys (see, but not limited to: Pierce County) who will die before giving their young officials opportunities.

2) Time - most association boards are volunteers. It's hard enough to wade through extensive video (1.5 hrs/match, observing 3 duals per ref, 20 refs per association) much less trying to evaluate every ref of every association.

3) The state picks a number and obsesses over it. When it decides that Association X is "better" than Association Y, it will take years for Y to prove itself, even if Association X only showed well for one year. It's why our current evaluation system is silly and the old "top 12" system deservedly went by the wayside.

4) It's political. Many associations are figuring out "how do we get as many as possible to state?" instead of "how do we get the best officials of this year to state?" Hell, in our association, one of the good ol' boys missed ONE year of state voting and got in a huff and quit.

I don't pretend to have the best solution, but I'm real as to the problems that exist today and know that the "simple" solutions people present are laughable.

Real talk? The best system would properly evaluate each referee AND give constructive feedback as to how they could improve and move up in the rankings. It would also rely on properly educated evaluators who are willing to put in the time (sorry, I hear WAY too many dumb comments yelled from coaches and spectators every match).

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Also on 1/31/2025, 7:11 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

Due to the lack of college wrestling, our refs top out at 'good high school ref.' When we travel to states with college wrestling the product is very different.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by 2nd round on 1/31/2025, 8:17 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

I recently watched an official at a Chief Leschi match end two matches after the second round. I hope he makes it to state.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by yup on 2/4/2025, 7:22 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

don't they do that already?, accountability is always agood thing. it will be interesting this year that's for sure.
I forsee a lot of no calls and ref deciding matches unfortunately...

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Name on 1/31/2025, 9:54 am, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

Hopefully the big guy from Cowlitz County makes it to the dome. Those stupid rubber gloves will make it way easier for all fans to know which wrestler scored!

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by No pain, No gain on 2/2/2025, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

There will also be no observers/evaluators this year. Which means all the ref (all 72) will be reffing in the finals.
Good luck to those refs breaking in to their first state tournament. Predicting that there will be about 25+ protests over the three day stretch and at half dozen in the finals.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by For real on 2/3/2025, 9:12 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

Everybody was told about state being three days due to 32 man brackets. That information was out before the season started. The old fat refs started complaining. The younger refs realized how much PTO they would be using.

The state says if an individual attended the online clinic and passed the test, they are able to ref at state. The horror! The old guys continued to push back. To no avail.

The officiating associations knew who could go and who could not. Those up for the challenge but thought to not be ready, get them ready. You got two weeks to deep dive the rulebook and situations.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by yes on 2/5/2025, 9:40 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

If last nights dual was any indication of the reffing at state there will be some upsets.
Missing a call is one thing but getting loud and in a coaches face while still making the same mistakes?...
This doesn't look to promising.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Dave G on 2/5/2025, 11:50 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

I am in the SCWOA and I think we are sending a good group of officials to state. I will miss my second year in a row for the Mat Classic, due to injury, but I think our crew that is going will represent us very well. Will be an interesting MC with all the changes this year.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by valley on 2/5/2025, 2:12 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

I hope so..

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Marlboro for me on 2/12/2025, 1:43 pm, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

What a bunch of BS by the original poster. No association is sending a JV ref to state. The cool thing is, there will not be a bunch of slow, old, fat, grey headed, "I remember when" jackasses walking around thinking they are somebody because they reffed at state in 1991. I hope all those aholes stay home.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Real_Man on 2/12/2025, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

Your wife said NO again, didn't she?

Smart Girl

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Lame on 2/12/2025, 2:49 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

My biggest problem is refs who aren’t very good, probably know they aren’t very good, and do nothing to improve. Everyone misses calls and can have different opinions. But there is no excuse for not knowing the rule book and case book. It’s clear some of these guys never wrestled, but go home and watch some college wrestling or high level high school. Watch how the refs handle situations. Stalling, stale mates, control, reaction time, scrambling, etc. Learn and get better. It’s frustrating year after year to watch some of the same guys do the same dumb stuff. Work to improve!

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by reaction time lol on 2/13/2025, 8:46 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

Hopefully there aren't any calls like that girls Centralia finals last year

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by How do you know? on 2/12/2025, 3:24 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

You will see that there are JV level refs going to state. Many associations promoted guys from JV to varsity out of necessity even though they weren't ready. And some of those guys are definitely going to state this year. You seem to have smoked too many Marlboros or maybe something else.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Marlboro for me on 2/12/2025, 5:24 pm, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

How many errors can the state make all under the guise of "what about the children". Anyway, associations decided to promote refs. Why? JV refs don't wear a different uniform. They attend the same online clinic, take the same test and attend the same training meetings. JV refs may be going to state and associations promoted them to varsity because... Old fat broken guys would not get out of the way. Thought the state assignment was automatic. It appears the WOA has taken that away from the old guys.

As for me I smoke many kinds of cigarettes, but that Marlboro with the extra nicotine is the best.

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by NotJosh on 2/16/2025, 9:34 pm, in reply to "JV refs going to state. "

Just don’t send “Josh” from Yakima area. That dude sucks!!!

Re: JV refs going to state.

Posted by Well on 2/17/2025, 6:21 am, in reply to "Re: JV refs going to state. "

I think the name Josh should be a disqualifier to ref at state.

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