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Ford Kuga 2.0 TDCi 2010 - AWF fault, code P1889 oil pressure pump performance #

Posted by Shane Gray on October 9, 2014, 5:23 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2010
( Optional ) Engine Code or CC: 2.0 tdci

Hi

Got this ford Ford Kuga with AWD fault code p1889 oil pressure pump performance. Only thing I have checked is oil levels in all boxes. Our broadband is down due to storm last night so havent been able to get on ford tech site.
any help please?
shane

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 9, 2014, 6:48 pm, in reply to "ford kuga awd fault"
Kevin Apps

Shane

Code read with what ? live data ? Have you checked the fuses ?

Kev.

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by shane gray <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 9, 2014, 7:26 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Shane Gray

Fuses ok. Code read with dec ss,no real live data to look at.
shane

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 9, 2014, 7:54 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Kevin Apps

Shane
"no real live data to look at." Not even pump voltage or current ?
Kev.

ps How are you able to post here but cant log into E-TIS ?

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Sorry it does have volts and current. Current was 12 volts on dec but should be amps?.volts 30 to 50 volts. I don't no anything about this system so was hoping someone could help?
I posted on mobile network on my mobile.
shane

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Tony Ludford <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5539' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 9, 2014, 10:00 pm, in reply to "ford kuga awd fault"
Tony Ludford

These are prone to both filter blockage and pump faults. Ford quote pump resistance as being between 2-8 ohms resistance (via a tech phone-call, as it's not listed on eTIS). A colleague took a faulty one off the other day at 2 ohms and the new one came with a resistance of 9.3 ohms!

Never dealt with them myself, so can't offer any other advice I'm afraid.

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Shane gray <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 11, 2014, 11:42 am, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Shane Gray

Hi,
Got on etis and read up on the system .
Checked resistance at pump 1.2 ohms. Ordering new pump at £ 556 , new filter at £50 and special oil at £80 . Any need for those prices!,
Let you no outcome when fitted?
Shane

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 11, 2014, 3:53 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Lee Mackintosh

So how are you meant to test this pump then if the resistance of a new one is outside the suggested specs given by the manufacturer.

Is 0.45 ohms too much of a tolerance if trying to test an old unit when a new one was 9.3 ohms if its meant to be 2-8 ohms.

1.55 compared to the lowest spec of 2 is far more closer than 9.3 than it is to 8 ohms.

Must admit I wouldn't want to be condemning a pump at £555 based on the resistance measurement even though its out of spec. I'd be quite nervous to the pointi probably wouldn't replace it and suggest going to ford dealer asi can't be certain.

I've advised this before and some customers actually appreciate it even if your diagnosis was correct.

Please don't take this as a criticism as its not what I intended, its more a question of how are we meant to deal with this type of situation.

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by shane gray <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 11, 2014, 4:51 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Shane Gray

Far point lee,
it did cross my mind! I'm going to hold off on getting the part to see if symptoms get worse!
Shane

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 11, 2014, 5:47 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Lee Mackintosh

Shane,

I ain't saying your wrong but thought I'd just throw a spanner in the works, at least it gave you something to consider.

If I got the maths correct I can possibly see why a fault may exist although I don't even know what the system is but,

at the low end the difference is 22% out of spec wheras at the higher end its only 16% out of spec. So does the resistance become more critical at the lower range.

I would guess and say yes, a few ohms resistance in a starter circuit isn't a problem compared to a sensor circuit I suppose.

hopefully someone will be alng to guide us better.

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Ian Baxter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1560' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 12, 2014, 12:06 am, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"

I to have no dealings with this Ford system but with the details given for the Ford tolerance of 2 to 8 ohms on a 12 volt pump this = 6 to 1.5 Amps respectively. So at 1.2 ohms at 12volts that would be 10 Amps, so that's quite a jump

could be blocked filter causing pump to work harder or just a pump that is losing the will to live or of course naughty wiring

Ian

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 12, 2014, 9:07 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Mark Carter

Hi Lee,,

>>> I would guess and say yes, a few ohms resistance in a starter circuit isn't a problem <<<

A few Ohms resistance would be critical in a starter circuit, Resistance controls current flow in a circuit, just use Ohms law and work out the Volt Drop it would cause.

Regards

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 12, 2014, 10:53 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Lee Mackintosh

Mark,

fair enough but is a 300mV volt drop in a starter circuit as critical as a 300mV volt drop in a sensor circuit or in this case a pump.

unwanted resistance isn't good in any circuit but I've constantly read a sensor earth circuit a maximum of 100mV is the limit but upto 500mV is just about the limit of a starter circuit or engine earth.

How do you go about testing this system if it was in your garage? A new pump clearly wasn't within spec so it doesn't really instill much confidence for the likes of me in testing a circuit or component which is wrong according to a manufacturer data but with the knowledge it doesn't mean much from reading a post on here (which is the purpose of forums).

I suppose you can test power and ground circuit and change the filter but that won't change the pump static resistance would it?.

Working resistance & current consumption I can understand would be affected by a blockage or a power/ground issue though.

Thanks
lee

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 13, 2014, 8:31 am, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Mark Carter

>>> fair enough but is a 300mV volt drop in a starter circuit as critical as a 300mV volt drop in a sensor circuit or in this case a pump. <<<

That all depends on the circuit, but the resistance needed to achieve your volt drop in each circuit would be VERY different due to the circuit loading.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Ed Kaps <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5536' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 15, 2014, 1:05 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Edward Kaps

Not that this will fix your problem, But,
A typical 1.7kw starter will require 155amps at 11 volts to run at the correct speed, with a 'start' current approaching 400amps.
Now using Ohms law, create a 0.2ohm resistance in that starter circuit and see how it will effect current, --it will not even turn over.
lesson here endeth.

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 16, 2014, 8:16 am, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Lee Mackintosh

Well i'm lost,

Doesn't the size of the battery also have an input of the available current at the starter motor.

I was more refering to the component resistance being an issue rather than the circuit's wiring at 1st.

All i was stating, is 1.55ohms compared with 2 ohms enough difference to layout £555 on a new pump when another member has fitted a pump with a resistance out of Ford's recommended specs (9.3 compared to the upper limit of 8 ohms) before.

Ed,

you'll have to explain it to me i think.

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 16, 2014, 4:25 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Mark Carter

>>> Doesn't the size of the battery also have an input of the available current at the starter motor. <<<

In short, NO, the total circuit resistance (including the intended comsumer) will determine the current flow within the circuit.

The battery must be able to supply the current to the circuit but a bigger battery will not help a starter circuit that has a high circuit resistance.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: ford kuga awd fault

Posted by Ed Kaps <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5536' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 16, 2014, 4:50 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Edward Kaps

Hi Lee
I agree with you on the pump resistance not being far enough out to cause an issue. Measuring resistance on any motor circuit is misleading and should not be relied on, the position of the brushes to the commutator will create diff readings, next time you take a fuel pump out of its box, measure its resistance , then measure again after it has run a couple of minutes, you will see what I mean.
What Mark is alluding? to, is that the effect of circuit resistance will vary depending on the load, thats why I gave the starter example. You can have high values of resistance in a sensor circuit with out much of a problem (little current flow), yet the same amount of resistance in a motor circuit can cause all sorts of issues.
It is more or less only useful for determining if you have an open circuit and little else.
Volt Drop circuits under load conditions will give you the full picture.

Re: ford kuga awd fault/ unresolved

Posted by Shane gray <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 18, 2014, 8:22 pm, in reply to "Re: ford kuga awd fault"
Shane Gray

Hi,
Customer has used for a week and fault hasn't reappeared.
Time will tell.
Thanks for comments.
Shane

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