Vauxhall Astra 1.9 CDTi Z19DTH 2005 - Hard to get gears #
Posted by James Eardley on October 16, 2012, 8:34 pm
Year of Manufacture *: 2005 ( Optional ) Engine Code or CC: 1.9 CDTI Z19 DTH
Hi guys, I just wondered if you may offer some opinions on this one,
The vehicle first came in from a car trader customer, they took it in part-ex knowing the gearbox had been reconditioned about 7 month previous.
The blokes wife was driving it about for about 1 month.
After a month the gears started to get harder to select and the biting point was very near the floor, although the pedal felt good (not spongey) I bled it any way and actually made it worse.
My first impression was that the clutch may have fell apart and some thing was still turning the gear box.
My tech stripped it down and honestly the previous repair was shocking. There were various bolts missing (including bell housing), some bolts were cross threaded(including bell housing) and also 1 bell housing bolt was too long and had bottomed out before it had clamped anything
The cluth bolts were also cracked of using a 6" ratchet and one hand.
Anyway, the tech fitted a clutch and reccommended a flywheel that the trader didn't want fitted and repaired some threads changed some bolts the car drove perfect.
Also this is a self adjusting clutch and was fully re-set before fitting(was re-set in the box)
2 weeks later and the trader has dropped the car off just as I was locking up so I am going to look at it tomorrow.
The Symptoms Now
You can easily select gears with engine off. You can not select gears with engine running and clutch down. Clutch pedal feels good.(can feel pressure plate resistance from begining of travel) If you select a gear with clutch down then start the car it will idle but try to creep slightly.
The strange thing is when I lift the clutch pedal the biting poing is just above the middle of the travel as you would expect?
I have just re-read my post and thinking about it now I think one of the only possibilties is that the bell housing may be parting when the clutch is pressed??
I want to go to work now and see..... Na, it can wait, I think ill crack a beer instead
Hello James, was tool used similar to this on ebay? Item number 130693103173 I've also had "dished" centre plates causing this problem & a seized nose bearing-but wouldn't think this model would have one.
I have got access to a very similar tool as that one. That one seems rather cheap.
This clutch was already re-set when it arrived so I never used it.(The adjustment springs were fully retracted)
In my experience when the clutch isn't retracted when fitted the pedal is rock hard to press.
I have not had to many problems with the auto adjust clutches so I suppose it could be a problem in that area? If this was the case I would think the problem may have shown itself earlier though?
When you say 'dished' center plate do you mean causing drag? I have not seen this before, do you mean damaged or wrongly manufactured?
"Anyway, the tech fitted a clutch and reccommended a flywheel that the trader didn't want fitted and repaired "
If DMF flywheels arent perfect they can float back and forward or wobble like a coin rolling along the floor. Either way it will keep turning the gears causing poor gear change. But the clutch movement will feel fine.
I was also thinking it would have been hard to get the gears as soon as it left the ramp if it was down to the self adjusting mechanism. As regards to the "dished" centre plate, I had this several times from a well known re-man supplier that we were a distributor for (crap). You could put it on the pressure plate & see 1-2mm gap on the outer of the lining-again would have been evident from the start.
I have considered this and it wouldn't be the first time I have seen a flywheel fail shortly after a new clutch has been fitted, due to the customer being hell bent on not wanting to changing it.
only thing is, I can't help but think of all the goosed flywheels I have seen and some have been vurtually destroyed. Like ford mondeos, when they have got so much wobble they 'clatter' and I have still not experienced these symptoms.
Thanks again for all your input, I looked at this car today.
The Bell Housing isn't parting.
Kev
There is some end float on the crank. I checked it by prizing behind the flywheel and prizing behind the bottom crank pull. It would probably have been more accurate with the sump off.
I used a dial gauge on the crank pulley bolt.
The results were 0.3mm in one direction then back to 0mm in the other direction. I believe this is about 12 thou.
I have done some research and a new crank, apparently 5 thou is prefered, but I suppose there will be some wear.
Im not sure how concerned I should be? How much is too much?
There is some noises on start up that do sound very much like a failed flywheel.
There is a rattling noise that stops when the clutch is pressed.
I can feel a slight vibration through the clutch pedal when I lightly press it.
Assuming the end float is ok and I have not got 2 problems, it is starting to look like all the evidence is pointing to flywheel failiure.
I could understand the fly wheel wobble causing drag and making it hard to select gears but this car will actually drive along (on the flat) with the clutch fully pressed. That is some drag, remembering that the actual biting point is a little over half way of the clutch travel.
I am going to strip the box out and inspect.(I may see something obvious)
Can anyone confirm they have had flywheel failure causing this much drag?
I thought I had seen just about every possible clutch/flywheel failiure combinations (obviously not).
Also any feedback on the Crank end float is much appreciated.
James, i had a merc in aboout 3 months ago with what i believed to be clutch a problem. I thought it was springs or plate breaking up. You had a great feeling pedal but had to stop it to put it in gear and then it would try creeping with your foot fully down, You could feel a little vibration on the pedal and change the noises by pressing the clutch.
When i took the gearbox out i found it was DMF type and the clutch looked fine but you could pull the flywheel in an out about 7mm or more. You could also pull one side and push the other sending it crooked. I think this is what is happening on yours, All will be clear when the box is back out,
Hello James, I had a TD5 discovery clutch dragging a while ago just after we had fitted a new clutch kit. The new clutch plate had too much copper/friction material in it which you could see when I took it back out. It was a genuine Valeo clutch kit, but another genuine plate cured it.The annoying bit was that I only fitted a clutch kit whilst we were fitting a reconned gearbox & the old one wasn't too bad really. Hope this helps, regards, Andrew
We took the box off today and the flywheel has got alot of movement also the clutch is damaged.
In the pictures below you can see the metal spring tags have broken and the plastic ring has come away from the center of the friction plate.
This is the flywheel side of the friction plate, I think you will be able to see the wear on the plastic ring, from floating around between the flywheel and friction plate causing the drag.
My theory is, the new clutch finished off the flywheel and the flywheel damaged the clutch.
on October 16, 2012, 8:44 pm, in reply to "
