Washington Wrestling Message Board

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state brackets

Posted by fan on 2/16/2025, 10:39 am

When are state brackets released?

Re: state brackets

Posted by T on 2/16/2025, 11:30 am, in reply to "state brackets"

Monday

Re: state brackets

Posted by Fan on 2/16/2025, 11:45 am, in reply to "Re: state brackets"

Just read on WIAA says it will be released Sunday afternoon

Re: state brackets

Posted by TrackStar on 2/16/2025, 11:59 am, in reply to "Re: state brackets"

Track shows them being released at 1:00 pm on Monday. SOPs state they are to ve released on Sunday.

Re: state brackets

Posted by They’re out on 2/16/2025, 1:13 pm, in reply to "Re: state brackets"

They released em

Link to state brackets

Posted by Dave G on 2/16/2025, 1:23 pm, in reply to "Re: state brackets"

https://www.trackwrestling.com/predefinedtournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&TIM=1739740882651&pageName=%2Fpredefinedtournaments%2FTournamentHub.jsp&twSessionId=tmlganydfh

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by fan on 2/16/2025, 3:45 pm, in reply to "Link to state brackets"

they closed again

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Weird on 2/16/2025, 3:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

So they released them, kids look at them, parents look at them, coaches look at them and then they close them again that seems weird. I thought this was supposed to be a fail proof way to seed the tournament? Do better WIAA.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Locked on 2/16/2025, 3:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

This has happened in years past too. Brackets get released, then locked and corrections are made.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by grimace on 2/16/2025, 4:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

Yes they are probably fixing mistakes, not the first time.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 2/16/2025, 4:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

But the issue is the limited to no transparency on the process. So if it's mistakes in the seeding, who called them out on the mistakes?

Will everyone be listened to or only the people that reached out?

I have followed 2a, 3a, and 4a all year and I see some glaring errors in the seeding. You'd only know this if you paid attention to the rankings from here, WWN, and the actual tournaments, maybe even having seen these kids wrestle.

Seeing kids ranked at 1, 2, and 3, now ranked at 6,7,8,9,10 is pretty ridiculous.

There are kids who are ranked 5, 6, and 7 who beat the top ranked kids at 1a, 2a, 3a, and 4a. To me it shows bais.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by With on 2/16/2025, 4:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

With regionals it was pretty cut and dry.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by WA wrestling fan on 2/16/2025, 5:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

In my opinion, it was not cut and dry. First off, you have you had 4 region winners, then you had to decide who should get the number 1 and 2 spot based on previous years state placing or participation. That is pretty silly if you ask me. I don't care how they did last year at state. I care how they are wrestling this year. I have seen tough freshman or sophomores get crappy seeds even if they were undefeated the entire year and easily the # 1 or 2 in the rankings; however, based on the ranking system, upper classman got a better ranking/position in the bracket simply because they were a previous year state placer or participant. I have seen semi-finals matches that should have been the finals match because of this ranking system. Previous years state participation/placing should not be high on the seeding criteria list. It really should be something to refer to if you need a tie breaker on seeding criteria.

This year's system, although not perfect, looks at head-to-head match ups, number of wins/winning percentage, wins over similar opponents, etc. To me, that is a more realistic metric for ranking opponent.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Fan on 2/16/2025, 6:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

So will brackets not open back up tonight? WIAA SOP’s say Sunday evening. I hope they follow their own rules. Why no one takes SOPs seriously.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Steve Davis on 2/16/2025, 6:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

Definitely gonna be some issues.
Girls 3a 145 #1 seed listed as 7-0 but she has a loss to the #2 seed. Both with 1 loss but #2 should have nod head to head

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Who do you contact? on 2/16/2025, 6:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

Who do you contact if there are issues in a bracket?

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Change on 2/16/2025, 6:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

I wouldn’t contact anyone until they open back up and see what changes they are doing that they closed them

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Who do we contact? on 2/16/2025, 6:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

I'm usually a proactive person.

In my case I find the seeding to some of these wrestlers disrespectful, and in a few of the cases a good chance the two best wrestlers will end up meeting in the quarters.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Complainer on 2/17/2025, 9:52 am, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

Maybe they took them back down to stop all the complaining. If they make all the complainers happy then all the happy guys will become the complainers. Kind of like politics.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Complainer? on 2/17/2025, 10:08 am, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

All you have to do is go compare the rankings here and at the WWN to see how poorly the seeding was done.

Complaining and advocating are two entirely different things.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Complainer on 2/17/2025, 10:38 am, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

Valid point. I didn't realize those rankings even existed. They aren't up to date though. some wrestlers are listed in the wrong weight class.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Complainer? on 2/17/2025, 10:58 am, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

Yes a few moved down here and there so it's tougher to account for. The seeding/brackets were weird enough for the WIAA to blame a trackwrestling glitch.

I personally noticed a number of wrestlers and was wondering if I was wrong. The moment someone mentioned Izzy Acosta was at #6, someone is being biased or unaware. Or a glitch.

Re: Link to state brackets

Posted by Huh on 2/18/2025, 10:13 am, in reply to "Re: Link to state brackets"

It was cut and dry, not perfect but cut and dry. Do there wasn’t as much complaining about brackets. Now people are complaining they are wrestling kids from their own districts. 🤷‍♀️ I don’t care if that’s the seeding your kid got Thats who they should wrestle. You take 8 kids from one district you cant expect to be spread out. I really hope regionals comes back.

Re: state brackets

Posted by mat fanatic on 2/18/2025, 9:07 am, in reply to "Re: state brackets"

ANNND they're gone.... again

Re: state brackets

Posted by Back up on 2/17/2025, 11:28 am, in reply to "Re: state brackets"

They up again

losing records

Posted by Old Dad on 2/17/2025, 11:18 am, in reply to "state brackets"

There are really wrestlers that have lost twice as many matches as they have won going to state!

Re: losing records

Posted by And.... on 2/17/2025, 11:39 am, in reply to "losing records"

There are wrestlers seeded at #6 who were destroyed by wrestlers they have seeded at 24!!!

I get that there needs to be an algo that figure this out for ease, but watched ranked kids in the top 5 here drop to a 20+ seeding is insane.

Yes, of course this potentially means the #6 kid will get smashed, but then why have seedings if they are going to be so inaccurate.

Re: losing records

Posted by Fan on 2/17/2025, 12:23 pm, in reply to "Re: losing records"

What a mess brackets are up but still all wrong. No head to head is being factored.

Re: losing records

Posted by coach1a on 2/18/2025, 9:11 am, in reply to "Re: losing records"

Not that I agree with all of it, but I think that most people don't understand the criteria.

Each wrestler is compared to the others in the bracket. The Criteria starts with head to head. If the wrestlers are equal on head to head, the criteria moves to the next step. When one wrestler clears the criteria over the other wrestler, a point is awarded. Each pair of wrestlers is compared and points awarded. After all wrestler are compared to each other, the wrestler with the highest point total is the number one seed and so on.

Re: losing records

Posted by Coach on 2/18/2025, 11:31 am, in reply to "Re: losing records"

This is the best seeding we've ever had at State.

People complaining don't understand the matrix.

Dead give away is when they complain about head to head, they don't really understand the point system.

Re: losing records

Posted by We will know on 2/18/2025, 11:45 am, in reply to "Re: losing records"

We will know by Saturday night if this was a good system.

Re: losing records

Posted by Coach on 2/18/2025, 1:25 pm, in reply to "Re: losing records"

We don't need to see Saturday to know this already seeded closer to what our rankings are vs the old regional placement system to put kids in the bracket. Use some common sense here.

Re: losing records

Posted by Fan on 2/18/2025, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Re: losing records"

A clear and obvious are kids who are 8-17 ranked 3rd or 4th. Thst should never happen.

seeding

Posted by The Pinner on 2/18/2025, 2:39 pm, in reply to "Re: losing records"

I for one was not opposed to giving weight to returning placers/champs & regional winners. Sucks to be a freshman or not win your region, right?

I do understand the new criteria & I'm not opposed to taking a broader look. I can point out in the current brackets a district winner who beat the no.1 seed in the state bracket at their district tournament. He also had a loss though to same wrestler earlier this season. Both are very established with very similar records. I would have conceded the no.1 seed to the kid who just won his district, seems like "common sense" to me.

Common sense is subjective & differs greatly on ones perception.

Enjoy the best weekend of HS wrestling this state has. I'll be the one arguing (cordially of course) with the guy in the striped shirt, you as well?

Now that's common sense

To Coach

Posted by Brasco11 on 2/18/2025, 2:31 pm, in reply to "Re: losing records"

Could you explain it for us? I'm genuinely asking. Like how many points are awarded for each criteria? It's difficult to understand how a wrestler could be seeded lower than multiple wrestlers when they have the head to head, a winning percentage against common opponents, and a higher overall winning percentage. Make it make sense!!!

Re: To Coach

Posted by Right?! on 2/18/2025, 2:59 pm, in reply to "To Coach"

And what about if you’re dropping a weight class going up or doing something different than what you wrestled all season? How would you compare head to head if you haven’t really wrestled those guys? Then you automatically get a lower seed? Make it make sense

Re: To Coach

Posted by coach1a on 2/18/2025, 3:13 pm, in reply to "To Coach"

It is only one point per comparison to another wrestler in the bracket. So if there are 24 wrestlers, the most that number one could have are 23 points. He would receive one point for each wrestler that he bested in the criteria.
Each wrestler is compared to the other wrestlers one-by-one starting with the head to head match up. If the one wrestler has beat the other more times, he receives the point. If they have not wrestled or are tied on head to head, the next step in the criteria is used. They will go through each step of the criteria until one of the wrestler bests the other. Then a point is awarded to the wrestler who cleared the criteria. If after the criteria steps are completed and the wrestlers are tied, they both get half of a point.

After all of the wrestlers are compared to each other, the wrestler with the top points is the one seed.

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