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Gut check trouble

Posted by Tired on 1/4/2025, 11:43 pm

Horrible, why grow the tournament if it can't end at a decent time. Isn't there a rule about matching not supposed to start after 10p.m. kelso had that question last. Maybe time to go elsewhere.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Answer on 1/5/2025, 4:59 am, in reply to "Gut check trouble"

If you pay an extra $50 you can get out at 9:59

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Tired on 1/5/2025, 1:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Over hyped not as great as you think it is

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Dplit on 1/5/2025, 11:45 pm, in reply to "Gut check trouble"

They need to split the tournament, girls wrestling has grown too much. In 2023 the boys had 32 man brackets and girls had 16 man brackets. Now the boys have 64 man brackets and girls have 32. And with the jump in participants we didn’t add anymore mats(there isn’t room). So different venue or split the tournament, girls deserve there own tournament! PAC coast ran same number of participants on 14 mats. It was a much better situation for the athletes. Didn’t weigh in til 8:30 done wrestling before 6 on Friday. Bottom line we need more mats.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Wow on 1/6/2025, 8:03 am, in reply to "Gut check trouble"

Agreed it should have had more mats, split the divisions...obviously the growing pains of a growing tournament.

Don't really know the inside politics on why Orting/Tahoma chose to go elsewhere but it is what it is.

The competition was tough in many divisions, and there were some awesome matches. However, when kids show up at 7am, and have a bye, with two matches split over 12 hours...that's bad.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Easier on 1/6/2025, 9:50 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Another problem this year was teams bringing “wildcards” who are no where close to the state qualifier level that they are supposed to be. Just to name a few, Shorewood, Hazen, Bellevue, and Skyline all brought big teams with most of them not being anywhere close to state qualifier level. Maybe they let them in because poor little king-co had a hard region? But these kids got slaughtered at an overall easier tournament than last year. We replaced Newberg and Toppenish #1s with jv level kingco kids.

Teams that aren’t top ten should not be bringing their full squad. Just bring your quality kids like everyone else. No one should be wrestling their first match at gut check…

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Just Wrestle on 1/6/2025, 10:39 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Yeah the way the tournament went this year was exhausting and what not. we all went through it, it sucks but it won't be the last time we are in a gym, arena or dome for long hours. it's what we sign up for and know its a possibility. Then to call out teams who finished 26th (Bellevue), 50th (Shorewood) and 56th (Skyline) out of 96 scoring teams, just to fit your Seattle/KingCo narrative.... its just getting old. even without some of those teams its a 64 person bracket and long days.

Also, maybe those teams see some of the wrestlers you minimized as possible state qualifiers this year and want them to see first hand what its going to take the rest of the year to place. This forum has just become a cesspool of negativity and its gross we try to bring each other down instead of looking at some of the amazing matches we saw this weekend! I haven't seen one post about the great matches that happened or shocking performances from the weekend. just the obvious negative stuff we already know about.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Easier on 1/6/2025, 11:36 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

There is no narrative, I coach in the Seattle/Kingco area you mention. The reason they placed high is because of their good kids who should be there, not the ones that they brought who went 0-2 and took up space and time at the tournament.

Teams were specifically told they cannot bring kids who do not have criteria (State Qualifier/Placer). The whole idea behind the tournament is for it to be the top teams combined with the top individuals. Not some testing ground for your up and coming kids. I'm sure it wasn't just those teams, they are just the ones I saw weigh in with full teams.

So either it was the tournament wanting more money by letting them bring anyone, or the teams not following the rules of the tournament.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Wow on 1/6/2025, 1:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

I see what you're saying. There is some truth to iron sharpens iron for the great kids. However, the paper kids get little to nothing out of the tournament, except expanding the tournament to 10:00pm for matches that took up 10+minutes each.

That adds up to hours of unneeded time as few benefited in getting better from those matches.

I know my kid had a number of tough matches. He made a couple of kids look real bad, but that's because he caught the kids not because they are actually bad.

On the other side of the bracket I did see a lot of weakness.

I believe that kids should be given the opportunity to give themselves a chance. I saw one kid who nobody gave much thought to beat 2 of the best kids in the state. Nobody would have picked that kid.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by State on 1/6/2025, 1:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

All of you that wanted regionals gone will now watch the same thing at the State tournament. Enjoy!

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Wow on 1/6/2025, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

I wish this board wasn't anonymous. Too many weird comments with no accountability.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Really? on 1/7/2025, 8:54 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

And yet YOU posted anonymously.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Wow on 1/7/2025, 9:14 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

But I don't talk junk about wrestlers, parents, or tournaments.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Mats on 1/6/2025, 9:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

64 man brackets can be ran in two days. BUT THEY NEED MORE MATS! Or have the girls on a different day. Girls have grown too much they need their own tournament.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest surprise on 1/6/2025, 1:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Biggest upset was Tavarre Lee vs. Desrochers(I don't know which one) at 138. 11-0 against a top top top kid in the State.

That Lincoln Tacoma team had 3 kids win in the finals. Not bad.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Upsets on 1/6/2025, 2:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Nice job biggest surprise someone is finally talking about wrestling. That was definitely a huge upset, based off of the score it looks like that match wasn’t even competitive. The biggest upset to me was Noah Koyama loosing to that sophomore from battle ground. They are in the same district. This should be fun to watch

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Gut Wrath on 1/6/2025, 2:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Gut check gave me major gut wrath this year. Shall we review the good, the bad, and the ugly? I think we shall!

The good:
- Good competition at every weight. Though not quite as deep as past years (more on that below)
- WWN. Pretty cool to see Sam Ottow there reping Washington Wrestling Network. I like that they are bringing more hype and attention to our kids.
- Aaron Brooks and Amit Elor were awesome. They signed autographs and took pictures for hours. Amit helped with the awards, and they both made themselves available to hang out and chat with the kids. Both class acts.

The bad:
- who likes ending BOTH days after 11pm? I think that would be no one. By the time kids were in bed, and accounting for the early weighin on day 2, most probably got 4 hours of sleep. Totally crappy.
- Directly related to item 1, there were way more, to say it nicely, “outmatched” wrestlers than in the past. Whereas individuals used to have to be returning state placers to get in- or top 10 team- now the only criteria is having a Visa card. These goobers clog up the brackets, resulting in 6 hour waits between matches. Which causes the late nights. I’m sure the mighty marauders of Mariner are great guys, but they (and many others) do not meet the criteria. So why were they there?
- Some of the top teams from the past no longer come. Probably because of the items mentioned. Resulting in less depth, and eroding the whole idea behind this tournament.
- The awards ceremony sucks. Big time. Two easy fixes: first, get a proper podium. For a “national level” tournament that bills itself as a professional production, it’s ridiculous to have a janky little platform with computer paper printouts of the placings. Second, give out the awards for each weight class after the next weight wrestles. Like state and most big tournaments.
- The awards ceremony sucks part 2: so bad it needed two bullets. Not a single weight class had all medalists on the “podium”. Teams left early because they still had to drive home 3-5 hours away for some, so waiting for awards wasn’t an option. End at a reasonable hour and people will stay.

The ugly:
- the ref making the most absurd stall calls I’ve seen in my 35 years in this sport. Beyond anything I’ve ever even imagined.
- No DoE sightings. IYKYK

I appreciate the effort going into putting this on. But the late nights were enough of a problem that I’m not sure if we’ll be back next year.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 1/6/2025, 3:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Totally. I thought Koyama or Gibson was going to take the title. The both wrestled the kid from Battle Ground tough, both got up to big leads. Gibson escaped with a few seconds left and went up by one, and Gray reached back while Gibson went to the back and snagged a foot or heel. It looked like the ref missed some points for Gibson. Last few seconds and he scored some nearfall to win. I don't know when it happened but Gibson's nose was bleeding and he had a black eye from hell.

I expected Koyama to mop the floor with Gray, and Noah went up 6-1 just like Gibson went up 6-0. Next thing you know the score is 13-7, Gray winning. Good on that kid. Koyama and Gibson wrestle tough.

The 11-0 Tavarre on Desrochers was unreal. Truthfully, it's the part I hate most about the sport as it can make a kid like Desrochers feel like he's not good...when in fact it just wasn't his day.

Hopefully all the wrestlers respond accordingly and work their asses off to get better.

Tre Haines did what I expected. It shows what the extra weight allowance allows. I was surprised the kid from Mt Vernon at 150 didn't win, and came in 4th. Tough wrestler. Got out worked in the 3rd place match by a kid from Yelm I believe.

Thought Ross looked like a beast at 126.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Upsets on 1/6/2025, 3:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Also at Heavyweight semis, it was a 4a state finals rematch. Mains flipped the script on Aney and won 5-2. That was the same score that Aney beat him in finals last year. That should be a fun potential state finals in 4a again this year.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 1/6/2025, 4:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Good call.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Ted on 1/6/2025, 3:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Not a huge upset as Tavarre is a hammer. The score was suprising though. Bigger upset was Andrew Gray over Noah Koyama at 144.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 1/6/2025, 4:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Both Koyama and Gibson in the match before had Gray down by 6 points. Seeing Gray comeback in the dying seconds of the semi's in a mad scramble, then do the same thing to Koyama was crazy.

It makes me wonder if Gray would have been able to make a 144 scratch weight or was he that much bigger at 147-148 allowed weight. Either way, good on him.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by 3a on 1/6/2025, 4:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Lincoln high school Tacoma only have 9 wrestlers and place Top 4

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 1/6/2025, 5:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

3 belt winners will do that!

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by 3a on 1/6/2025, 5:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

They have so hammers Lee kid is very good Ross and Flores have it changed to state title all three of them

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Easy on 1/6/2025, 9:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

That’s easy to look up on track, every kids weight is posted!

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by BW on 1/10/2025, 7:50 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Nice win by Tavarre, but don't make it out like he is some mid wrestler that beat a world champ. T Lee has been a beast all along, and if you watch him you'd know he is extremely hard to score on and will beat anyone at his weight. Only the casuals don't know how dangerous that young man is on the mat.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 1/10/2025, 8:36 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

I'm not doing anything like that. Most wouldn't have expected him to handle Desrochers.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by BW on 1/10/2025, 11:48 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

But you are doing exactly that by acting like JD is so much more elite than TL. JD is a dog for sure, but so is TL. The only reason TL isn't a 2 time champ right now is because he drew Josh Neiwert the past two state tournaments. The only people who didn't expect him to handle that GC match are casuals who don't know anything about WA HS wrestling. Not even close to a surprise.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Biggest Surprise on 1/10/2025, 12:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Not acting any way. I didn't say anything about Niewert, and have been complimentary of TL. I suspect this is his parent. I think your kid is very good.

I think his teammates are good, and am happy to have put a spotlight on him so people know how good he is.

Please stop reading into anything. 11-0 of JD is an upset.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Observer on 1/8/2025, 6:36 pm, in reply to "Gut check trouble"

Five big observations I have over the past ten years of regular season high school wrestling tournaments.

Observation 1:
No high school tournament should be larger than 32 man brackets,
Most should 16 man brackets.

Observation 2:
Wrestling stops at 8pm any day of the week.

Observation 3:
Tournaments should have a cap on how many teams are invited due to the shortage of referees.

Observation 4:
No more than five mats max per tournament also due to the shortage of referees.

Observation 5:
No more combining boys and girls tournaments at the same location.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Like on 1/9/2025, 6:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

I like all but 5

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Need More MATS on 1/10/2025, 10:09 am, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

These observations are valid and good. When I read them, I thought of the Lake Stevens Invite. No Nonsense, get'er done with great matchups.

I think GUTCHECK needs a different venue for what they are trying to accomplish. 8 mats is not enough. They probably are compelled to over book the event for financial reasons.

The intent is great. BUT if they don't make adjustments, more programs will eventually join the ranks of Orting, Toppenish, and Tahoma and go elsewhere.

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by John on 1/13/2025, 6:38 pm, in reply to "Gut check trouble"

Parents always complain about everything its only a D tournament if your kid placed be happy or go Jr high tournament where they might win first or go to a tournament where they will definitely be out in two matches and you go home early with on complaining about tournaments running late

Re: Gut check trouble

Posted by Serious on 1/13/2025, 7:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Gut check trouble"

Are you serious if one kid makes it to finals whole school stays. Our bus got back to school at 3 am. Gut check needs more mats or give the girls their own tournament. 5 mats for a 64 man bracket is very insulting to the athletes! PAC Coast made it work, same size tournament but ran on 14 mats. Paid for parking but nobody got their windows busted out like at gut check.

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