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Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Post Capone on 12/17/2024, 9:18 pm

Who wins, what matchups will we see, and who’s ducking who?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Dave G on 12/17/2024, 9:49 pm, in reply to "Orting vs Toppinish"

What is the date and location of this dual? Sounds pretty intense.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by BW on 12/17/2024, 11:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Orting takes the dual easily 45-28. Best matchup is AJSal v JZ. That the best match in the state. If JZ goes 132 and gets DT, that's a great one too. Q v KZ is good too. The dual should be a phenomenal display of PNW HS wrasslin.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Ha on 12/26/2024, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Doubt those matches will happen here but they would be awesome to see

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Tony on 12/18/2024, 7:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

12/27 6pm Orting high school

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Wrestling guy on 12/18/2024, 6:36 am, in reply to "Orting vs Toppinish"

So with a lot for talk of this Toppenish Vs Orting match and everyone siding with Orting. The question is, is Toppenish not good anymore? Is there Powerhouse run over ?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by My Thought on 12/18/2024, 8:27 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Historically, programs like Toppenish have experienced periods of dominance fueled by a willingness to do whatever it takes to appear at the top. These cycles often last around three years before shifting. For example, Curtis High School was recently a top program with strong coaching. When their successful coach left, they hired someone with a controversial track record, and the team quickly declined, becoming one of the weakest in 4A within a few years. Similarly, Chiawana went from being 4-time state champions to having just one placer at Tri-State after losing their top coach.

The distinction with Toppenish is that their success wasn’t rooted in exceptional coaching but rather in having resources and individuals who were willing to push and break boundaries to maintain their status.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by BW on 12/19/2024, 12:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Your thoughts are foolish. A programs strength lies in the quality of the wrestlers in the room. HS coaches do very little during the season to build athletes, they more just have opportunity to condition and maintain skills during the season which is accomplished by have quality wrestling partners. All strong HS teams of the past 20 years are a by product of strong local wrestling clubs that build, and push, and teach kids how to be wrestlers. Toppenish, Orting, Tahoma, etc have athletes that originated in their local USA wrestling club.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by BW = BS on 12/19/2024, 1:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

While I agree that many of those programs have wrestlers with club experience, the key difference is that those teams, including Lake Stevens under Coach Barnes, were able to take kids who no one had ever heard of and develop them into outstanding wrestlers. Or take really good club kids and make them way better. Athletes like Lester Barnes and Michael Gasper, who didn't even step on the mat until 9th grade, are prime examples of how effective coaching and a strong team culture can help raw talent evolve into championship-caliber wrestlers. Take George King and look at the difference between his two schools and output.

It's important to recognize that while local wrestling clubs play a role in building a foundation, it's the strong coaching staffs and the support within good high school programs that transforms athletes. Programs that are consistently strong are able to take athletes at all levels of experience and give them the tools, guidance, and opportunity to succeed. This is what sets programs that consistently fair well apart.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by 2A Fan on 12/19/2024, 9:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

I think the distinction with Toppenish is people started moving in to their school. From Davis, West Valley, Granger, Zillah, etc.

They have great coaches now and did in the past as well. I would say this run started with move ins more than anything else.

But I’m from the outside looking in

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by In the now on 12/26/2024, 3:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

So Orting has never had a move in??
Maris brothers, templeman, who all live in Buckley… Dicugno lives on Tapps island.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Real on 12/26/2024, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Exactly. Orting always has kids ‘waivered’ in. Plenty now even, that don’t live there. Same as Toppenish. Can’t hate on toppenish when Orting is the same

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by old timer on 12/28/2024, 12:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Hence the term "waivered in" perfectly acceptable under the rules of that time. As I recall most of OHS transfers @ the start of their dominance did so prior to 9th grade. Which if I understand correctly is how you are supposed to do it now? Totally above board.Human nature to want to be a part of something that is bigger than the sum of its individual parts.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Steve Davis on 12/28/2024, 2:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Honest question, was Dickerson an Orting kid when he went to private school as an 8th grader?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Good question on 12/28/2024, 3:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

And what about nery? Or Urijah Satiacum? Or Watts?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by And on 12/31/2024, 4:14 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Is this why Al Salguero's sister wrestled at Puyallup but he's at Orting?

The wrestling landscape sure would look different if kids stuck to their school district.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Actually on 12/31/2024, 6:25 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Any kid can attend or wrestle for any school they choose, as long as they follow the proper steps. Don’t like it? Change the rules. Tons of students transfer to schools outside their district for various reasons, and most of them are academic rather than sports-related. Look up the stats. Your kid’s school likely has more transfer students than you realize. All schools do.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Come on AJ's Dad on 12/31/2024, 7:37 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

There’s no way someone is transferring to Orting solely for academic reasons.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Dean of Education on 12/31/2024, 7:58 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

OPA

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Downside on 12/31/2024, 8:44 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Most of the best kids at Orting and Toppenish don't get recruited or go to the next level because there is a little too much focus on wrestling and not enough on the student athlete portion. If you're a three time state champ you should be going somewhere big. The Dad/Coaches don't seem to have that part figured out.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by on notice on 12/31/2024, 8:50 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

negative ghost rider. Wa state titles mean very little in the recruiting process

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Ghost Rider on 12/31/2024, 9:35 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Washington state is not on most d1 college programs, or d3 for that matter. That’s not because the top wrestlers are not good enough, it’s because kids don’t know the path.

It’s because coaches may not know the path. They also may not care about the next steps for their state champ. There are obvious inroads to Menlo, and NIC but can’t believe more are not making it to more established programs at better academic schools.

Some Washington kids have made it to Stanford, Bakersfield, U of Chicago, UC Humboldt. No doubt these kids had some solid guidance to get there, in addition to their wrestling.

Too bad the coaches at the powerhouse schools don’t make the contacts at the better Div 1 schools. Just because the coaches don’t know about Washington kids doesn’t mean they don’t want them. They just don’t know yet.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Maverick on 12/31/2024, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

"That’s not because the top wrestlers are not good enough"

I respectively disagree.

NCAA Division 1: One percent of high school wrestlers will go on to compete at the Division 1 level. These student-athletes aren’t just the best at their school; they are the top high school wrestlers in the country and oftentimes rank in the top 100 nationally. They consistently win and place at major tournaments and wrestle in the offseason at a competitive club. Division 1 competition is fierce. Athletes are expected to train year-round, on weekends and during holidays, making free time extremely limited.

Top Gun

Agreed.

Posted by Ghost Rider on 12/31/2024, 12:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Across all classes and weights in Washington State there are about 20 wrestlers per year who should be wrestling Division 1.

That may not be Iowa, but low to mid levels but maybe its grades that eliminate opportunity.

Re: Agreed.

Posted by Name on 12/31/2024, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Agreed."

When some of the WA pound for pound top wrestlers announce their GPA at Tri State as "good enough to wrestle" or "just high enough to be eligible" you see the problem (Tahoma btw). Toppenish has had a pipeline of studs for the past few years, and aside from Drury(D1) and Nava (FCS), most can't maintain eligibility even at the juco level. 89% graduation rate but some of the lowest standard test scores in the country means the school is literally setting these kids up to fail.

Re: Agreed.

Posted by Ummm on 12/31/2024, 2:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Agreed."

The kid you're referencing is a freshman that doesn't have a GPA yet (btw).

Pretty sure Tahoma has 5-6 kids wrestling D1 right now, so they must at least do a little homework over in Maple Valley.

Re: Agreed.

Posted by Steve Davis on 1/2/2025, 8:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Agreed."

Not sure the standards for GPA wrestling in your district but if the Freshman had a 4.0 currently (within a few weeks of semester finals) I would guess that you would say that. If it's just enough to wrestle, it could be 2.0 and passing 5 classes. It could be a joke too, who knows with kids these days.
Who are the Tahoma kids currently wrestling D1?

Re: Agreed.

Posted by Knowledge Keeper on 1/4/2025, 6:19 am, in reply to "Re: Agreed."

Steve we thought you were in charge of all this data. Do you not believe the post is accurate?

Re: Agreed.

Posted by Steve Davis on 1/4/2025, 7:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Agreed."

I could only think of 5: Lillie, Starren, Kovacs, Gaspar and Neal. Who is the 6th?

Best of the best

Posted by Maverick on 12/31/2024, 2:20 pm, in reply to "Agreed."

Name your 20 Top Gun candidates please.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Powerhouse transfers on 12/31/2024, 8:29 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

The wrestling landscape would look different at all levels if kids went to schools that had wrestlers strictly from their area. kudos to any kid that has success and didn’t transfer to a powerhouse.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Dickerson on 12/31/2024, 10:37 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

In response to your question. Bryan lived in University Place when we was in 8th grade. He was given a choice to go to LCA & wrestle in high school & chose to do that. Covid came & everything changed. He moved to Colorado & lived with Whitney Cox, trained with Betterman Elite & the WCAP. While in Colorado Bryan expressed his desire so have a “normal” high school experience & asked to move to Orting to wrestle with his friends that he’s known his entire life. We packed up & moved to Orting while he was still in Colorado. He came back at the end of his 9th grade year & the rest is history. Did we move into the district for wresting. Absolutely! That’s what good parents do, what’s best & desired for their kids. Bryan had a great wrestling experience & even better student experience in Orting. It’s a great place to raise kids. Orting VS Toppenish & who is #1 doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme. We are all champs on / off the mat.

Thanks for posting

Posted by Dave G on 1/2/2025, 9:34 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Thanks for posting. I think you answered all their questions with facts. I love it when people are transparent and just state the facts as you did. We need more of that.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by EastsideG on 12/27/2024, 6:51 pm, in reply to "Orting vs Toppinish"

Fun dual. Why doesn't Toppenish compete at Tri State?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Academics on 12/27/2024, 10:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Because TriState is on a college campus and Toppenish wrestlers are rarely qualified to wrestle on college campuses.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/27/2024, 11:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Good one cuz it's true.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Fan on 12/28/2024, 12:05 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Orting still would’ve won Tri State by a lot but I bet Toppenish would’ve been 2nd place

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Sean on 12/28/2024, 1:18 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Well let’s hope they don’t break a nail and can’t wrestle. 😂

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/28/2024, 5:24 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

I couldn't stand QH for a long time because of his style of wrestling. That kid is tough as hell and anyone who thinks otherwise should have their head examined.

My guess is that Toppenish doesn't have a kid on the team that gets higher than a 500 on their SAT, and would carry a 1.0 or less anywhere else but Toppenish.

If Jesus Pete actually cared he'd be preaching education and escaping Toppenish through wrestling. Instead they produce unadaptable kids who are destined for crime and illiteracy.

The town and school are so insulated they have allowed the wrestling to continue despite the heinous sexual misconduct of the assistant principal/wrestling coach and his wife who were supplying sex and drugs to the kids.

https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/state-revokes-certificate-of-toppenish-teacher-investigated-for-sexual-misconduct/article_6cb3d0fc-b648-11ee-ad42-a76d33549927.html

"The teaching license of John Cerna has been revoked by the State of Washington.

The Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction revoked Cerna's teaching certificate on Nov. 30, 2023, according to documents from the Admissions and Professional Conduct Advisory Committee.

Cerna worked as an Assistant Principal, English teacher and wrestling coach at Toppenish High School, he and his wife were accused of providing drugs and alcohol to students and for inappropriate sexual contact with students.

The Yakima County Sheriff's Office, Toppenish School District and, ultimately the state of Washington investigated the allegations."

The superintendent of the school district is the father of the abuser!

https://www.yakimaherald.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/former-toppenish-high-teacher-bertha-cerna-dies-in-southern-california/article_889d51c4-0623-11ee-8e98-53aceb178706.html

Bertha Cerna died of a fentanyl overdose while in custody.

Then there's the illegal spending and accounting for their wrestling program:

https://sao.wa.gov/the-audit-connection-blog/2022/audit-finds-toppenish-school-district-did-not-have-proper-oversight-its-expenditures-superintendents

https://www.applevalleynewsnow.com/news/education/state-audit-reveals-blatant-lack-of-management-of-spending-at-toppenish-school-district/article_6e1cbb57-079b-516e-9df8-f3faa353c1aa.html

"The audit found the district didn’t have the proper oversight when it came to funding for enrichment activities. According to the report, the school district paid for five out-of-state wrestling trips that cost it $41,620. The school district also paid for six in-state wrestling trips that cost it $17,212. This came out to total amounts of $7,991 in 2020 and $50,840 in 2021. At the time of the report, the district didn’t have a policy that established per diem rates for students traveling for school-related activities. Because of this, the auditor said it could not be determined if the students were provided the correct amount for meals when traveling."

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Matsavy on 12/28/2024, 10:44 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Everything you posted is factual and a sad truth but what you failed to mention is kids in that community are working hard trying to be the best despite the economic and social and logistics they face everyday while trying to become great wrestlers. Wrestling is one of few opportunities they have to escape the pitfalls from the gangs and addiction culture. More men like Pete are needed to guide and mentor these athletes.I applaud him and his efforts to give them a skill set and hope for the fucture.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by CBBN Fan on 12/28/2024, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Having grown up in an impoverished area, I agree with your sentiment.

However, the idea of winning and losing with grace should be the cornerstone of coaching and the sense of place within the community. I will never blame a wrestler for their action. Coaches should make them accountable. I am assuming that the Toppenish coaches sent them home for that reason.

We can never blame socioeconomics on behavior. I wish this talented team nothing but success in the future. I am a fan.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/28/2024, 5:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

The toughest thing is when a place doesn't know a path to higher education, how can anyone set these kids up properly to take such a path? It's not as simple as getting into a Division 1 college. You have to academically survive and take advantage of the education, degree, and develop relationships that will help you in the future.

When their best examples are a corrupt superintendent whose son is the coach and assistant principal trying to sex up students while having his fentanyl addicted teacher/wife ply them with sex and alcohol/drugs as well?

Not great.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/28/2024, 5:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

I entirely acknowledge it might be their only opportunity and don't want it to go away. I wish the leaders were preparing for things bigger than wrestling so they stand. chance in college. Currently, they are set to wrestle and fail out of college, not get to college, or stay at home.

Kids should use wrestling. Wrestling should not use the kids.

My opinion is they could use a lot less Jesus and a lot more tutoring and SAT prep.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Green hat on 12/28/2024, 8:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

you sound racist. Topp has several kids competing and thriving in college.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/28/2024, 9:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Who and where? Why would it be racist to state that superior wrestling kids coming from a school that has questionable ethics are struggling to get to good Div 1 colleges that match their talent?

Suggesting racism is a good way to ignore the truth.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by wrestler on 12/28/2024, 9:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Haiden Drury

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/29/2024, 10:07 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

As much as I want to be critical of the acceptance rate at UVU(100%), good for him. I hope he completes his degree.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Matsavy on 12/28/2024, 11:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Jesus is the reason many athletes find success. In school in sports in life. He is my savior and he loves us all.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by That’s right on 12/29/2024, 12:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Yeah, didn’t Satiacum from Orting compete at state last year with two broken hands? Did damn good. A finger injury? Come on
They just wanna talk big and try to start fights, weird

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Just Wrestle on 12/27/2024, 8:37 pm, in reply to "Orting vs Toppinish"

Great Dual

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Good Win! on 12/27/2024, 11:29 pm, in reply to "Orting vs Toppinish"

Congratulations Orting on the win. I'm from the valley and can expect the lose fair and square. Til next dual and hopefully with no drama.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by My 2 cents on 12/28/2024, 10:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Let Jody run the team and parents sit in the stands and keep your mouths shut other then rooting on your son or daughter . Don’t like to see wrestler get 3 stalling calls in 20 seconds but backed up for 20 seconds. Deserved what he received . Great wrestler though. Enjoyed how the wrestlers that had length from Toppenish controlled the wrists. Great dual but parents and coaches need to control themselves.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by My 3 cents on 12/28/2024, 11:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Jody has no control of that team. He takes orders from the moms.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by 50 cent on 12/29/2024, 12:00 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Well do the moms look good?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Hot on 12/29/2024, 7:39 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Being a hot mom is the greatest superpower to have.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Diddy on 12/29/2024, 8:32 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

If you like Botox and tramp stamps ,then yes!

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/29/2024, 9:01 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

If they have a C-section scar to make the trifecta, please have them DM me.

A little about me. I have a large 4x4 with truck nuts and have listened to every episode of Rogan.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by 50 cent on 12/30/2024, 6:43 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Which team has hotter moms orting or topp?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Hot moms on 12/30/2024, 7:29 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Can we get a state wide team ranking of who has the hottest moms

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Number One with a Bullet on 12/30/2024, 11:42 am, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

1. Bellevue (All-Kingco, All-State)
2

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by 50 cent on 12/30/2024, 12:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Individual would be fair to make sure to include the heavys!

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Odds Maker on 12/30/2024, 2:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Was it "Coach" Harding or "Parent" Harding getting in a kids face?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Silly Question on 12/30/2024, 5:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

From the video it was easy to see the Toppenish kid was not where he was supposed to be, taunting and trying to get a response. He was not where he should of been. I wonder if there will be any consequences for this behavior. I really think they can’t control the kids or they simply condone the behavior.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Ummm on 12/30/2024, 5:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

You mean for the adult "parent/coach?" Best place for that guy is the stands from now on if I were there athletic director. A "coach" starting chaos with a high school kid.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by Zinger on 12/30/2024, 8:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

Everyone has different thresholds for disrespect.

How much are you willing to take?

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by The Zunigas on 1/2/2025, 6:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

When the holy-roller mom isn’t being a walking charity case begging for money to get the angels to their events, she’s acting hardcore and encouraging that ridiculous behavior. What on earth do you get out of acting like an immature loser after winning your match? Why not just win or lose with class? It’s obvious the behavior was encouraged by the parents,but dang that is legitimately embarrassing and a terrible reflection on the team and administration. .

Curious as to why they weren’t acting like that in Reno…when the California kid from Gilmore tecked him in the 2nd round . Great wrestlers, but they have no class.

Re: Orting vs Toppinish

Posted by The Zunigas on 1/2/2025, 8:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Orting vs Toppinish"

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