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Mat Classic

Posted by Martin Mitchell on 2/20/2023, 11:02 pm

I don't think I've posted on here since I was in high school but I do occasionally look at the board for useful information and sometimes a good laugh.

Here's my 2 cents. Be careful for what you wish for and keep things in perspective.

Is there another venue in WA that can showcase the greatest sport on earth with every classification in the same building at the same time that the WIAA can afford?
NO. But if you know of one I'm all ears.

Should we look at splitting up the tournament based on classification?
NO. It's not in the best interest of our athletes or our sport in general.

Football State for example use to be at the Dome now it's played outside in the freezing cold or the rain at some random high school. Is that really better than when all teams played at the Tacoma Dome?
NO.

Do you really want college coaches having to choose which tournament to attend? I can tell you right now it's not always going to be one particular classification. Your son or daughter might miss out on the exposure they need because the recruiter wasn't there.

No mat time on Thursday sucks, we all looked forward to that day BUT that's not the Dome's fault that's the fault of the WIAA waiting until the Monday of State to tell coaches they're just going to have to deal with it. If they had made that announcement at the start of the season it wouldn't have been such a big deal because people would've had time to prepare for it both mentally and accommodationally for their team's practice. (yes I know that's probably not a real word)

Does having more classifications "water down" the event?
Yes/No
If you say yes, then you should be advocating for getting rid of all classifications and State should be like it is in California with only 1 State champ per weight. Period.
If you say no, you're probably a person of rationale thought that understands we are trying to GROW our sport. More classifications give more athletes incentive to qualify for State which results in higher participation in our sport. Depth is the only difference between the classifications. Every year there's a 1B/2B or 1A or 2A kid that would win 3A/4A titles. Would the 5th place kids in 1B/2B do as well? No, but there are also 3A/4A champs that wouldn't place higher than 5th in the small schools either. To imply that none of the finalists would be able to compete in other divisions is just pure ignorance and elitist thought that doesn't hold true to the values we all believe the sport of wrestling teaches.

I herd the bathrooms were an issue, should that be fixed?
Yes. I'm sure the Dome doesn't want that to happen and will take the proper steps to fixing the problem for next year. Take those complaints to the Dome and not the Mat Classic itself.

Does anyone like paying high prices for food in long lines?
No. But you will do it to watch your favorite band or when you attend a Seahawks game so suck it up and do it to watch your wrestlers. A different venue won't change the price of food, it's simple supply and demand. Accept it and move on to what matters. The kids and the sport of wrestling.

The kids tournament should be the following weekend at a venue more suited for kids State like the Spokane Convention Center. By time Sunday rolls around I'm exhausted but I still somehow manage to still be there. But, I'm not giving the kids the same attention and effort that I would be giving if it was a week later. Trying to get weighed in at a separate location during medal matches is also ridiculous. Imagine your a family who has to choose between watching one of your children compete or leaving to weigh in their younger sibling. Kids State on Sunday is not ideal and needs to change.

I'm sure there's things I forgot to mention, but like I said, I'm exhausted from the weekend.

We all preach that quitting something because you don't get your way isn't the best way to handle things so let's all please take a breath and think about the long term effects of "quitting" on the Mat Classic Tournament. Let's find real solutions to making the Mat Classic the best State tournament in WA Sports.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and please feel free to share it with your school's AD, the WIAA executive board and whoever else you think needs to hear it.

Sincerely,

Coach Martin Mitchell

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Please no on 2/20/2023, 11:26 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

Please don’t change time or location of kids state! Signed all parents who don’t want to travel to Spokane!

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Martin on 2/21/2023, 12:03 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

You do realize the ignorance of your post right?

First off, I'm not going to comment on every reply but this kind of selfish behavior is the reason we're in this particular situation. I could easily shout back thru my keyboard, "typically westside response" but, like I said, this should be about solutions to keeping the Mat Classic high school tournament in one venue. If you don't have any solutions we don't really need your opinion on the matter because it doesn't help solve the problem.

There is no location in the world that is equal distance for everyone to travel to. Seems only fair to do one State tourney on each side of the State on back to back weekends.

This is the entire reason people are thinking it's a good idea to separate the State tournament. Which again, to those of us with enough rational thought to understand what's going on, is the wrong thing to do.

If they do not hold the State high school tournament for all classifications in the same venue, at the Tacoma Dome, you run the risk of your child's hs AND kids state tournaments being held in venues located in Spokane or Tri-Cities. Furthermore, if the WIAA does not continue to hold State in the Tacoma Dome it will undoubtedly be held at another venue and your odds of that being in a cheaper location on the east side of the exponentially increase.

So again, let's work on logical solutions to our current problem.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Please no on 2/21/2023, 12:14 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

It’s wonderful having high school and kids state at same venue on same weekend. One trip one weekend! Why would parents want that changed? Seems very odd. And by having it on west side it’s closer to the majority of the population of athletes. That’s just how it is, more people live on west side.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Justin Springer on 2/21/2023, 1:26 am, in reply to "Mat Classic"

How about one single division for an individual state tournament and hosting a dual team state tourney separate by classification....best of both worlds.

In my opinion, duals create the best atmospheres for both casual fans and die hard wrestling junkies.

This would continue the push for growing the sport with duals and allowing for a much higher level of competition for individual state champs.

As both a coach and parent of multiple wrestlers who are/were in and out of high school at the same time, it is nice having kids state on the same weekend, although as you mentioned, it can be very tiring and a little tough logistically.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Martin on 2/21/2023, 2:52 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Thanks Justin, I'd love to see a dual team championship as well. I don't have an qualms with kids State the next day other than it makes for a very long weekend and for those wanting to watch the medals and being forced to leave to weigh in and re enter the dome.

In a perfect works we'd leave the tourney the way it is now and take the top 3 from each classification to make a super state tourney the following weekend and have kids state attached to that would alleviate the mass number of people who attend. That would create a smaller tourney that weekend while still highlighting the tournament we know as may classic.

What I think people don't understand is how close we truly are to having the tournament separated into different clarifications and how damaging that will be to our sport.

If that happens, the west side won't be the venue for all tournaments. It's just not financially in the cards. It would turn into a revolving door of sites on a two or four year cycle based on price of venue.

That's why I originally said, be careful what you wish for.

Also, I really should have left out kids State in my original message knowing what format I wrote this on. Kids state is an after that is only happening in the Dome because that's where Mat Classic is held. I should have just sent this to the WIAA and Washington State coaches association.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Martin on 2/21/2023, 3:00 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

*known as mat classic not may classic
*different classifications not clarifications
*after thought not after that

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Martin on 2/21/2023, 3:11 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Bottom line, I like watching all of Washington's best hs athletes compete in the same place at the same time and seeing all my coaching friends in the same place at the same time.

I don't think everyone realizes how close we are to losing that and how much that will change everything else.

If the clarifications are separated there will be no way to have a kids state the day after the HS State tourney. That's the point of my original message. Instead of everyone dumping all their frustrations about this weekend so mat classic is cancelled we should be looking towards solving the problems.

Solving problems usually involves compromise not demands.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Wrestler on 2/21/2023, 6:45 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Yes, we are very close to losing Mat Classic. Last year, the WIAA basically broke even financially on Mat Classic. This year, they were projected to lose money, and their plan was to aggressively pursue additional sponsorships to make the tournament pay for itself. This is all public knowledge in the WIAA board meeting minutes.

If state does split, you’d be most likely to see:

B’s at Spokane Arena or Convention Center with Small School girls.
1A and 2A at Sundome, or possibly TRAC or Toyota Center in Kennewick.
3A, 4A and Big School girls at Westside sites like Showare, Everett?

Or, replace any of these locations with a large high school that has the space to host this event.

Of course, if state leaves the Dome, then WSWA would not be able to use it for Folkstyle state, AND you’d have to push the tournament back a week anyway, as people COULDNT get from points all over the state on Saturday for HS State to WSWA Folkstyle Sunday at a location possibly hundreds of miles and a mountain pass away.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Brass Balls on 2/21/2023, 8:11 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Martin and Justin,

I am 100% on board with what you are saying. Could you imagine how much people would b*tch about hosting state at a HS. What HS has enough seating, parking, food, and lodging for 6,000 people? Talk to anyone who went to the football state championship and was the "away team". There was not a covering at seating for 200 people... lol.

I feel that you just take the good in with the bad. Are there things that are less than ideal about the dome? Sure. It is also a place that has tradition and brings us together as a wrestling community.

Kids state might just be a way for the WIAA to defray some of the costs. When short term rental bookings happen a venue usually can't find a use for a Sunday. Some places won't let you rent something for only Friday and Saturday and make you also pay for Sunday.

Love you guys, keep up the good fight for the dome!

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Eastside on 2/21/2023, 2:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

As a veteran coach from the Eastside I do agree! I do not mind traveling to Tacoma for the state tournament especially when when all classifications are under the same roof. Why? Its because as long as I can remember that his the history of the sport we love. If anything I would like to go back to more original like bringing back the scoreboards so everyone can see the excitement of team scores, god rest his soul but they guy who use to sing before the ceremonies. Bring something back like this that made making the placement rounds so memorable. The parade of champions, bring back the placers who use to walk. We have a great venue and we are blessed to be under one roof. If we keep complaining it will be separated and tarnish the meaning of Washington State Wrestling. Especially if you have a son and a daughter who are wrestling. you may have to choose who to watch. Lets get back to the old days and make state more memorable like it use to be! lets work on making state a memory you wont forget 20 years down the road.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Further East on 3/1/2023, 5:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Listen, even if the east side had a venue large enough to replace the Dome, all classifications at one venue, and was able to host both events, the west side of the state would complain and not be willing to travel. The claim would be it was too inconvenient.

Dome is trash, parking is a nightmare and as a result it is losing its appeal. And as long as we are at an impasse with this talk, they'll never do anything to update the Dome. I say break it up and suffer through for a few years. If you don't, the sport will die a slow death and you'll never be able to resuscitate it.

Perhaps we look at something like Oregon does now at Veterans Coliseum with creative scheduling and look to regroup when a new site replaces the venue we have now.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by LC on 3/2/2023, 9:28 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

I always chuckle when a select few Eastsiders put words in the West side's mouth.

Lots of state tournaments are held on the East side. My son's state baseball tournament was at GESA in Pasco a number of years back and we went, no problem. Schools like Neah Bay travel farther (8 hrs) than any East side school every year for the 1B state basketball tournament in Spokane. Volleyball is in Yakima every year.

It's not some conspiracy by the West side to shut out the East. We'll travel wherever the tournament is at. The fact of the matter is there is no venue on the East side that can handle everything under one roof.

If they split it up, there will definitely be East side venues. The problem that you'll find is the WIAA is trending cheaper, not extravagant. The thought process will be "they hold 16 man bracket tournaments at high school gyms anyway every weekend, why should we shell out for four big stadiums?" We won't see separate tournaments in Showare, Angel of the Winds, The Sun Dome, and Spokane Arena. More likely, we'll see the tournaments in Lake Stevens HS, Mead HS, Juanita HS, and Davis HS (names chosen randomly, not for actual gym feasibility).

Hell, we could see a repeat of that regional this year split into two gyms, just as the "state" tournament! Do any of us want that? Hell no! But it's not outside the realm of possibility of happening.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Wrassler on 2/21/2023, 12:30 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

I’d be in favor of USA State a week later so more high school kids would participate. So many watered down U16 and Juniors brackets because the top kids are done after two long days at high school state. If you are going to keep USA state the same weekend, give the youth a weigh in option at the Dome like they do for the high school kids. We did not take our younger child this year because there was no way we were missing high school finals.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Martin on 2/21/2023, 12:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

These last few posts were what I was hoping for in this message thread I started. Let's keep trying to work towards solutions to save the Mat Classic

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Coach Rak on 2/21/2023, 1:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

If we continue to do Mat Classic at the Tacoma Dome I would like to go back to a split schedule on Friday that we did a few years back.
Half the tournaments in the morning, half at night and give twice the mat space. This would make it less time between kids matches also this would relieve some of the issues, parking, the 40 minute wait for wrestlers getting into the dome and apparently bathrooms on friday. The hardcore fans would stay for all sessions.

Not sure there is a way to make saturday better. The morning went pretty well. But I feel like there needs to be a change to the finals. I don't know how to speed up the finals or make it easier to watch with 7 championship mats/ awards stands. But for a heavyweight it is a long time to wait to wrestle.

I know the dome is far from perfect, but as a wrestling community we need to have a solid option if it does change so we don't end up in the same situation that football ended in.

Solution:

Posted by Wrestler on 2/21/2023, 4:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Been screaming it for years, and WIAA has ALMOST stumbled upon it by accident with the girls.

Run 2 boys tournaments… a 4A/3A and a 2A/1A/B. Minimum 32 man brackets. (You could adjust bracket size to some degree as needed).

The main difference…is you still award TEAM trophies for each classification. So the B champs might be the 3rd or 4th highest scoring team in the small school tourney…but as the highest scoring B school, they would be the B champs.
But, maybe the B champs are the top scorer in that tournament…then everyone knows how good they really are.

Why is this so hard for WIAA to grasp?

Re: Solution:

Posted by Bumpity… on 2/21/2023, 4:49 pm, in reply to "Solution: "

…Bump bump

Re: Solution:

Posted by Tucker Carlson on 2/21/2023, 5:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Solution: "

We need a dual state championship desperately in the state....Go look at states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa. We are missing out big time.

Second one, and this is a reach. But to have middle school seasons aligned and have a traditional state championship and a dual team state championship as well. (*see the state of Ohio)

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Face Diaper on 2/22/2023, 5:49 am, in reply to "Mat Classic"

The Dome experience has become so miserable that at this point I wouldn't mind splitting it up. You can't see across the gym anyway to catch matches in other classifications.

The Dome itself is poorly run and isn't accomodating to the crowd at all. Long lines for food and poor restrooms. Top it off with inadequate/expensive parking and long lines to get in.

The Dome had a good run but those days are gone. I hate to say it but it's time to move the small schools east and keep the big schools somewhere in the west.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Re on 2/22/2023, 7:15 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Is a total of 98 state champions too many, enough. Or do we need more and at what point is enough or too many. Do we need to split 1b 2b and add a 5a class to help the sport grow? Is that really a healthy way to make it grow? Sheer numbers? At what point do we stop expanding? Legit question. And at what point do we call the dome officially over crowded? Is there no limit? Is waiting in line for hours to buy a $50 tshirt too long? At what point do we say enough. All legit questions.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Ace on 2/22/2023, 7:54 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

The Tacoma Dome is no longer providing a classic experience. There are many things that are done that do not make sense and make the experience miserable. For one, the lower bleachers being pushed all the way in on one side creates problems with floor access, viewing, and seating. In the past, the mats were centered and both sides of the lower bleachers were extended part way. The way that it is currently arranged defeats the purpose of an arena and makes other venues at least equal to that of the Tacoma Dome if not far better.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Remodel on 2/24/2023, 12:28 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

The dome was remodeled before the 2019 Mat Classic.
The remodel changed the lower seating, Destroying sight lines with partially extended bleachers...the nearside mats were obscured on both sides of the Dome. The current bleacher setup obscures the least mat space (i don't know the visibility from upstairs on the side with the head tables). Floor access was lost period due to the remodel.

The remodel is what led the Gridiron 🏈 Classic to leave the Dome.

From what I hear as a nonfan of basketball 🏀 the changes are great for the Hardwood Classic.

I don't know if there are other venues with sufficient floor space and seating (indoors)

Of course the meet could be extended over multiple days like some other states... say start on Wednesday like Iowa and require fewer mats while nominally keeping everyone together (multiple sessions) or the event split...both ideas seem to be generally poo-pooed on this site, so I'm not sure where your miracle venue exists.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Zipper on 2/22/2023, 1:04 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

You have some good points here coach. Focusing on solutions is a good idea. I guess the place to start is getting the Tacoma Dome/WIAA to be receptive to those "solutions". I think the reason that so many have had it with the Mat Classic is that the state tournament has been changing for the worse in many ways and there is not an apparent avenue for all stakeholders to have a voice.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Let's take a look on 2/22/2023, 2:30 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

Just for funsies, I did a size comparison of the "arenas" in Washington. These are just building square footage and does not represent the available amount of floor space (can't tell from Google maps), but gives a good idea of what a venue might handle.

This does NOT account for things like availability, cost, parking, sightlines from the seats, etc. Just an exercise to see what we've got.

-Tacoma Dome (Tacoma) - 24 mats, could probably fit at least 4 more ~296k sq ft.

-Showare Center (Kent) - 8 mats due to hocket floor requirements, could mayyyybe do 10? ~86k sq ft.

-Angel of the Winds (Everett) - almost identical in size to Showare ~86k sq ft, so 8 mats

-Spokane Arena - I was surprised to see it's larger, because I've photo'd multiple basketball state championships there and floor space always feels cramped. ~115k sq ft. Let's say 10 mats or 8 with more seating than Showare or Angel of the Winds

-Sun Dome (Yakima) - 61.5k sq ft. Probably 6 or 8 mats but the seating would be way more cramped.

-Beasley Colosseum (Pullman) - 103k sq ft. Let's say 10 mats.

-Hec Ed at UW (Seattle) - 51k sq ft. Probably 6 mats.

-Climate Pledge Arena (Seattle) - 162k sq ft. I'm guessing 10-12 mats could be feasible with seating to spare.

-Toyota Center (Tri-Cities) - 55k sq ft. Smaller than I was expecting but it does fit a regulation size hockey rink, so I'd guess 8 mats but more cramped seating.

Now, looking at places that do NOT have built-in seating (so low temporary bleachers would have the be utilized):

HUB (Spokane) - 50k sq ft
Clark County Event Center - 101k sq ft (but I'm pretty sure a lot of the inside is smaller rooms) or 69k sq ft in the "barn"
Spokane Convention Center - 115k Sq ft, but in a weird shape. I've heard they've had events there before, so... maybe?

At the end of the day, there's only one building in Washington that can handle 24 mats, the Tacoma Dome. We all know it's old and the seating reconfiguration for concerts makes for extremely awkward sightlines than before.

Realistically, if we split the divisions, we need to be prepared for state championships at high schools, especially in the smaller divisions (1A and B). I don't have the exact costs on hand, but from what I understand, we'd have to rent out three or four of the above venues to meet our needs.

Also, keep in mind that one of the biggest complaints (food cost and not being able to bring your own in) is NOT going to be solved by going to Spokane Arena/Showare/Angel of the Winds/Beasley/Toyota/Sun Dome/Climate Pledge (realistically, we'd never be able to reserve it anyway). All of them do not allow outside food.

Parking either is paid or hard to find at all of those except Showare.

Maybe it will make sense to move, I don't know. I'm just warning that the grass isn't always greener on the other side and I have a distinct feeling that the people complaining now will be complaining just as much if the tournament gets split up.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Wrestler on 2/22/2023, 3:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Great work.

I can tell you right now, Hec Ed, Beasley and Climate Pledge are out.

Most likely, Toyota Center, Spokane Arena and Everett as well.
Why? They have contracts with professional teams (counting CBB as well), and those teams do not have control over their schedules.

So they can’t GUARANTEE you the Arena will be available at any given time until they get schedules from their teams. You would at BEST have to get on the list for all these locations and grab whatever happens to be open after WHL and Pac 12 schedules are released. Some years, you might only get 2,1 or none of these facilities.

Could you cobble it together? Yes. But prepare for a lot of Sundome and Spokane Convention Center.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Reality on 2/22/2023, 4:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Very good synopsis of all the options. Sometimes the devil you know is the best choice.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Ron’ Bro on 2/22/2023, 6:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Has The Podium been looked at? Spokane . Not sure what the seating situation is but it’s been said they can fit 22 mats.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Let's take a look on 2/22/2023, 6:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Good shout - honestly hadn't heard of that venue. Looks to be pretty new.

According to Google maps, it's 105k square feet (advertises 72,000 feet of competition floor). Looking at photos of previous wrestling events, it looks like they can easily fit 14 mats and have room for their stands (which is advertised to be 4,000). If they took out the main table in the middle and squished everything together, I could see them in the upper teens.

Not going to lie - looks like a promising venue if they try to split state into multiple locations and don't go the HS route. I think it's too small for "all divisions under one roof" but looks like a good venue overall.

The cons that I can tell (ie what people would complain about):

-Stands are limited to one side only
-No outside food/drink or coolers
-Parking seems limited - their recommendation is to park at Spokane Arena's lots.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Ron’s Bro on 2/22/2023, 6:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Hosting women’s Nationals this spring. We will get a sneak peak. At least one thing is appears close to places to eat etc. perhaps could put a few divisions there.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Not WA on 3/1/2023, 11:32 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Not exactly in WA but the just across the border from Pullman in Moscow, Idaho is the Kibbie Dome with 93K sq ft of floor space which is enough for the 24 mats.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Coach on 2/22/2023, 7:59 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

32-person brackets will bring in more money so WIAA will break even. I know it sounds dumb but they did it 3 yrs ago when snowmaggedon hit. Go 32-person brackets at all classifications start it on Thursday

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by By Pham on 2/22/2023, 8:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

As part of the medical staff, I would not recommend we do that again. We had 5 elbow dislocations, 5 shoulder dislocations, and 5 different fractures… in the first day! I think it had to do with the disparity of wrestlers, number 1 seeds wrestling number 32 seeds. That is my opinion, but those injuries were serious. We usually see that many major injuries in about 5 years of Mat Classics.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by memories on 2/23/2023, 2:18 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

A few years ago when there were fewer classifications and separate venues I can remember some strange things. Central Washington hosted a state tournament in 1984, I think. Cascade High School in Everett hosted the state tournament in 1974. I once attended a wrestling tournament at Monroe Fairgrounds. 10 mats, I think. Ahh, good times.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Holtee on 2/23/2023, 1:38 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

Things can always be improved and made better and I honestly believe people continue to try and make Mat Classic better. Is there work to be done, sure, but as with all big events there are always things that are within the control of the organization and things that are not.

1. All state venues are up for bid for the 2024 and beyond state tournaments. If the Tacoma Dome does not put in a bid, then we won't have to worry about all the conversations addressing the dome. Eastern Washington University did not put in a bid for the 2A/1A/2B/1B and it is no longer there, could happen to wrestling too.

2. There is no facility in Washington that can host all the state tournaments in one location except the Tacoma Dome. Most venues have a hockey arena set up which can have a maximum of 8 mats with zero room around the outside. People thing the floor of the dome gets crowded, wait until you are in one of those facilities. If you go to the NCAA tournament you know. WIAA tried Hec Ed once with the 3A and A/B there and it was not good. People think the Dome has bad sight lines, they haven't been to Hec Ed for a big tournament.

3. Are there issues in the dome yes. Is the issue caused by WIAA or caused by the dome?

A. long line to get in on day #1, that was because the dome required bag searches and metal detectors. This was not WIAA wanting this.

B. questionable bathrooms, cleanliness, long lines for tickets or food are again not things that WIAA controls, these are dome issues. So some say let's go somewhere else, there will be long lines there too, likely parking issues and the expense to park. It could be cleaner and could have better bathrooms, we'll have to see. I'll say the restrooms I used on the south side of the dome on the floor were very clean, and often had attendants constantly cleaning them. That's good considering the number of wrestlers I heard puking in the stalls.

C. The moving mat assignments to increase the speed of the tournament. TRACKWrestling is designed to do this. The person running TRACK can preload mats that will be used but can also add in other mats that can be used if a group is running too far ahead which should stop the having to stand and wait for the 45 minutes.

D. The parade of champions, academic team state champs, coach of the year and HOF recognition could have definitely been done better. That's on WIAA, it really seemed rushed this year.

E. The poor sight lines for fans in the stands. I'm sure if you had a better plan for organizing 24 mats in the dome so everyone could see, everyone would be all ears. In Mat Classic one they had the announcer in the middle with the 2A on one side and 3A on the other and then they couldn't figure out what to do with the A/B so they ran a strip of 6 mats end to end along the west side of the dome. This was great for the A/B people but the 2A & 3A complained so they moved the announcer to the edge and then did 3 pods of 6 that rotated each year starting with Mat Classic 2. We may need to implement a rotation schedule again. Is there a perfect set up for the mats, I doubt there is.

F. People loved the big boards at the end of the dome, me too. But, the people that did those for all those years were volunteers and they retired from doing it. No one has stepped up and said he we'll do that. I'm guessing with TRACK, it isn't really necessary now as you can check the scores after every match now. If you'd like to do this I'd suggest you contact WIAA and say you'd like to volunteer to run the big scoreboards. Although you may have to remake them as I can't guarantee that the original people still have all the stuff.

G. Dual state tournament is always brought up. I can tell you that this has been a discussion point with WIAA for at least 10 years. We were so close once and the wrestling coaches did not support it and it died. We continue to push for this and will continue as we think it is important to the sport. But, when it comes down to vote time if coaches don't educate their administration it likely goes down in flames again.

I've attended every Mat Classic and have seen growth, change, additions, deletions, problems, fixes and it continues to evolve. It isn't perfect, but it still is an amazing event!!!

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by 2afan on 2/23/2023, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

1A/B- Sundome

2A- Toyota Center

3A- Spokane Arena

4A- Showare

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Girls on 2/23/2023, 2:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Then you have to split the girl's teams from the boy's teams, which isn't a good idea.

I don't know much about the locations listed above, but the best option in my opinion would be 4A,3A,large school girls at one location and 2A,1A,B,small school girls at another.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Mariner Fan on 2/23/2023, 3:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

T-Mobile Park could easily accommodate 24-28 mats and has a retractable roof. It's regularly rented outside of baseball season for events, graduations, etc. I know it sounds crazy but it could be an excellent option. Last February they held international matches and the Iowa vs. Oklahoma State Dual at Globe Life Ballpark in Dallas. Obviously we wouldn't set it up the same way but let me sketch it out.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Idea guy on 2/23/2023, 3:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Right what 24 mats could look like at t mobile.

upload image

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Further East on 3/1/2023, 5:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

HA HA
Bump!

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Nope on 2/24/2023, 12:39 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Not happening. Showare already hosts the Seattle Thunderbirds and Tacoma Stars, not to mention high-profile concerts and shows (where they make their REAL money). These venues aren't charities - they're private businesses and are actually pretty expensive to rent out. One reason the WIAA stays in the dome is it's cost effective to have everything under one roof.

As we've seen with football and gymnastics, if wrestling leaves the dome then state will likely be taken to high schools.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by older timer on 2/27/2023, 10:40 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

Old enough to have been mat-side when you won your first of 4 titles, Coach Martin, it is with much respect, I appreciate the discussion and respond with no solution--maybe, and plenty of observations.

I've been to every Mat Classic AND to a variety of State tournaments for different classification locations (Cheney, PLU, Central Washington) around the State for over a decade PRIOR.

Here are some random thoughts--have them what you will.

1. IS THIS MESSAGE BOARD AN ECHOL CHAMBER & REPRESENTATIVE OF VIEWS THAT MATTER?
Dave's Message Board reaches only the hard-core wrestling fans.
The average high school wrestler & their family doesn't know this site exists.
AND, as hard-core fans a massive tournament with all your friends & competitors under one big wooden roof is AWESOME!
People here are used to big tournaments, the expanse of mats, and the chaos, and we love it.

2. CONVENIENCE
If you're NOT a coach or on a team that regularly goes to State. The Tacoma Dome is a NIGHTMARE. Public Parking, Tickets, waiting in lines, fighting for seating that's already been saved by teams, bad sightlines with TDome renovations, etc.

The GENERAL public has it rough, while teams have their own team parking pass & wait in a brief line in the back of the TDOME to get in.

3. FINANCIAL- State Level
Few know what the WIAA's finances are when hosting Mat Classic. On one hand, you'll hear they make a sh*t ton of money having everyone in one place. On the other, you hear the TDome is pricing wresting out with annual price increases in fees, security, & maintenance.
Has there ever been transparency with the State financials (none that I've seen) and, the last I've heard is that "the contract" is up after next year.
Credit the WIAA for making it XXXIV years. But there are many changes that are making it a different event.
+ What are the administrative & tournament workers cost--many, MANY people on a timesheet.
+ What are the officials' total costs--anyone hosting a tournament knows those costs have gone through the roof?
+ Cost for ATCs?
+ Janitorial
Are they offset by paid admissions?

4. EVENT SPACE- a transformation-- called by the Tacoma Dome, a "REINVIGORATION"
The Tacoma Dome has evolved FROM a Sports Venue TO an Event Venue. Concerts > Sports.
For 38 years, more than 25 million people enjoyed world-class entertainment and events at the Tacoma Dome. In the summer of 2018, the Dome was enhanced with more than $30 million in capital improvements focused on making the live experience even better for guests and shows.
Mat Classic began in the TDome in 1989 and ran 29 of those years. For 4 years Mat Classic has dealt with the "reinvigoration" that's been a challenge & less than ideal compared with the years prior years.
Away from the eyes of 99.9% are the new "blue rooms" for the stars & concert performers and they ARE amazing: sculptured walls, in-direct and ambient LED lighting, plush furnishings, extravagant full bars, high-tech entertainment centers.
NONE of which does anything for wrestling.

5. FINANCIAL- Classifications > Schools: Travel, Lodging, Meals, other.
The city of Tacoma loves Mat Classic. I can't even count the number of different hotels I've stayed in but all of them will tell you they love the business! And as crappy a dive as the Best Western gets each year, in the same parking lot, no matter how bad it is, it can't go out of business.

What's the cost to schools in taxpayer dollars?
One coach recently told me how expensive it was for his team.
+ School bus vs Private Charter ($3-5k for the weekend)
+ 1 bed per athlete (district rule...makes sense) divided by double-doubles rooms if available or single rooms.
+ 1 bed per supervisor (girls required a separate female non-coach adult supervisor), & another separate room for the bus driver.
+ Meal money is given by the district for athletes for each day away from home/school (breakfast: $7, lunch: $9 & dinner:$14)--didn't matter if they were cutting weight or not eating. Coach's rates were nearly double.

Another coach has told me his booster club pays for everything. District taxpayer vs Boosters is that equitable across the state?

And, who travels the most? Who travels the farthest? What classifications?

6. EXPERIENCE
I think the WIAA--or more aptly, the amazing tournament directors for each division are amazing individuals for their dedication & devotion to the vision for the event.
But it's changed.
The debate is whether it's a better or worse experience and IMPORTANTLY: FROM WHO'S PERSPECTIVE.
.....Athlete or Fan?
.....Is it for the HARDCORE wrestler or fan?
.....Is it for the CASUAL wrestler or fan?
.....Is it for the COACHES?
-----Is it to serve as a shining gem in the crown of the WIAA?

Is MORE better? Is cramming everyone under one roof the way to go?

For ME, I loved it 34 years ago.
Now, not so sure that I wouldn't welcome a change & return to the days when a singularly focused, one-mat final had everyone on their feet, screaming, & raising the roof in an intimate environment.

There are MANY great facilities in other regions of the state that could run a classification of 16 or 32-person brackets.

(last minute plot twist) In closing, if we REALLY want to make Mat Classic the pinnacle of events, make each weight a 64-man bracket with ALL classifications COMBINED-- a TRUE State tournament.
Smarter people than me can figure out the regional qualifying.

Classifications continue to change https://wiaa.com/subcontent.aspx?SecID=1097 but a combined State Championship is really what we all want...isn't it?
(if not, divide 'em out & stop the madness)

.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Further East on 3/1/2023, 5:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

Seldom do I read long posts. Whereas I don't agree on all items, I respect your perspective and enjoyed the read.

I might add, let the venues compete for the best venue in the state. Each will appreciate the business and seek to improve their brand.

Thanks older timer. I agree.

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Fishy on 2/28/2023, 3:41 pm, in reply to "Mat Classic"

Have state a different sites..that's how it used to be and it seemed more special for those who wrestled. You have plenty of venues that could support a 2 day 16 man brackets tournament. EWU, Spokane arena, Sun Dome, Tacoma Dome, ect

Re: Mat Classic

Posted by Black Beard on 3/1/2023, 11:47 am, in reply to "Re: Mat Classic"

The Dome is damaging the sport. For the fans it is a terrible experience. I would not attend it minus relatives wrestling in the tournament. And that is saying something as I attend as many high school sporting events possible.

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