Washington Wrestling Message Board

Washington Wrestling Message Board
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Tate Orndorff

Posted by wa fan on 2/19/2023, 5:19 pm

won his 100th college wrestling match this week wow well done Tate.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Jay on 2/21/2023, 8:06 am, in reply to "Tate Orndorff"

Yet still only ranked 13th in the country - which if this holds he won't AA. A true example of WA wrestlers compared to the rest of the country.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Brass Balls on 2/21/2023, 8:13 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

You suck. He is doing a better job than 99.9% of wrestlers to come out of our state.

Congrats to him! Love watching him wrestle in college!

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Jay on 2/21/2023, 8:18 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

You're absolutely right! He is doing better than 99% of wrestlers out of this state, and still only #13! You just made my point!

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by By the Book on 2/21/2023, 12:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

We have a wrestler from our state who starts on the varsity team for Ohio State in the Big 10. And somehow you choose to criticize him and disparage him? Sheesh...................

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Eye Roll on 2/21/2023, 9:08 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

You are such a D-Bag. He is doing better than most guys from every other State. It’s freaking crazy to wrestle D1, yet even crazier to be ranked. Jay please let’s hear about your history and accomplishments? Just a dude in the stands I bet

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by wa fan on 2/21/2023, 11:12 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

look how many wrestlers stay health just to wrestle 100 matches let alone win 100. Tate is 13 out of 80 just to be in the 80. 50 states over 6 years of grads and he is (only) 13th.Jay you have got to be a never had it never did it fool

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Jay on 2/21/2023, 1:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

It's amazing how WA fans settle for mediocrity. There are 10 college weight classes and 8 from each will AA in college. That's 80 wrestlers from 50 states and you brag about 1 guy ranked 13th??? This is why WA wrestling never amounts to anything - you are totally satisfied with mediocrity!! In Iowa, Ohio, California, New Jersey, Illinois, Virginia, Pennsylvania and I'll even go as far as to say Oregon he wouldn't make a scrap of news, yet in WA you brag about him!! We set the bar so low for our HS kids. And we truly have some great HS kids but they never amount to anything in college because our goal for them is to be 13th place!! And most don't even think about college because they would rather stay home and work vs. achieving something more on the wrestling mat.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by By Pham on 2/21/2023, 2:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

I think people, including myself, have an issue with your definition of mediocre. Orndorff is anything but mediocre.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Justin Springer on 2/21/2023, 4:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

Tate is a very accomplished wrestler and made All-American Status already in 2021 (8th place). 100 wins is quite impressive. Not sure why anyone would bag on that. He's also an Olympic hopeful in Greco-Roman.

Not only is he doing 99% better than wrestlers from Washington, but he's doing 99% better than wrestlers from any other state.

Outstanding work Tate!

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Justin Springer on 2/21/2023, 5:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

*Better than 99%, not 99% better...

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Eye Roll on 2/21/2023, 7:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

Please Jay, explain how experienced you are at wrestling. It appears you are just a troll, which you clearly excel at. Tate is just one of many in WA, who have done well over the years.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Jay on 2/22/2023, 9:20 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

My god, you people are pathetic. This isn't about me. You all turn this into a personal attack because I don't worship a guy with 6 years of college wrestling and only an AA one time. I also don't think Drew Bledsoe was the best QB to ever play for WSU, so go ahead and attack my football skills now! This is a thread to discuss WA wrestling, not to brag about your own HS skills from the 1990's! This is precisely what is wrong with WA wrestling - you all make this about yourselves and your past lives! WA will never keep up with the rest of the country when HS is the peak of your accomplishments. Tate has been in college for 6 years - of course he has 100 wins by now, he's had more matches than most college kids ever have too. By the standards of D1 college wrestling he is mediocre. Yes, he was an AA one year, probably won't again. He has also lost matches to teenagers while in his upper years of college. Again, in ANY successful wrestling state he is nothing but average, but here in WA he is your god. Ok, go ahead and tell me how Tate can kick my ass on the mat anytime now. DUH! I didn't realize this website only allowed national champs to post on here? Oh wait, that's not possible because WA has had very few national champs, not for lack of talent, for lack of motivation to be the best. Because in this state being the best stops when you're 17 or 18 years old.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by wa fan on 2/22/2023, 9:28 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

or maybe the states with a RTC draw the top end wrestlers

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Brass Balls on 2/22/2023, 9:31 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

I still think you suck but I can see your point... I think Orndorff is the wrong guy to say is the problem...

Here are the problems I see with Washington Wrestling

-There is just a lack of complete wrestling in Washington. Guys are serviceable from their feet but are terrible at top and bottom. All those kids who come out of PA are insane on top.

-The top few guys in each weight are good but you only may match up with them a few times a year.

-The partners you have in your HS room probably aren't that good and some of the clubs don't have the partners to elevate guys to the next level. Their is a ceiling to how good someone can get.

-WIAA implements rules that create "fairness" but ultimately create mediocrity. Like all bureaucratic systems, they are the problem.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by 1A2A on 2/22/2023, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

Can I say something maybe controversial in this thread and to some?

Wrestling at the NCAA, I, II or even III level, is......boring.

I understand all the rules and ways to compete. But it is still boring. We have the Midwest/east coast to thank for that?

Fan appeal

Posted by By the Book on 2/22/2023, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

I am sympathetic to your point. The sport of wrestling, as competed at the NCAA level, does not have broad appeal to fans beyond those who love/understand our sport. The skill level of today's NCAA wrestler's is off the charts amazing, and the counters are too effective. So, it results in very low scores, and lots of time where seemingly nothing is happening to the casual viewer.
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If you want to see how entertaining the sport used to be at the NCAA level, get on You Tube and look up classic matches between Daryl Burley of Lehigh vs Randy Lewis of Iowa back in the early 1980s. Or Ed Banach of Iowa vs Dave Schulz of Okalahoma. Those bouts were exciting affairs where each guy was trying to PIN their opponent, and lots of offense thrown at each other.
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I spent Sunday evening watching a replay of the Army vs Navy dual meet. It was intense, very close (came down to the last match, and the final seconds of that match) and gut wrenching for an Army alum. But, honestly, there were long stretches of time without scoring and I can see how the non-wrestler would get bored by that. Sort of like international soccer - fans of the sport enjoy a 1 - 0 match, but non-soccer lovers find that boring.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Jay on 2/22/2023, 6:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

Have you seen Spencer Lee or Gable Stevenson wrestle? Almost every match is a pin, tech or bonus points. Going back just a few years, Dake, Taylor, Bo Nikal - all had exciting matches, not boring at all.

Re: Tate Orndorff

Posted by Brass Balls on 2/23/2023, 11:15 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

Gotta give it to you Jay. I think that NCAA wrestling is off the charts exciting! If you watch Penn St there is so much scoring. I am not a Spencer Lee guy but he puts the points up.

Also BTB, there is a side of wrestling that is so beautiful right now but you have to know what to look for. At every dual I find myself rewinding something crazy that someone did.

The sport is far from boring. If you can watch baseball and all of its nuisances why not wrestling? Educate yourself on the sport and you will not be able to watch anything else. I personally find football/baseball to be a snooze fest now.

I think I know/appreciate what happens at the NCAA level

Posted by By the Book on 2/23/2023, 11:25 am, in reply to "Re: Tate Orndorff"

I'm just telling you the reason the average person doesn't really care for wrestling - other than people who participate in, or already love the sport. The same is true for soccer and baseball at all levels - Americans love scoring and slam dunks and home runs. And in sports like wrestling, baseball and soccer at their highest levels, non-lovers don't see enough of that stuff to attract and retain them as fans.
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I understand and appreciate the nuances and athleticism of the NCAA athletes. Hell, I was rolling around and wrestling live with the West Pont team 5 years ago during their practice - so I have experienced first hand what is going on at the NCAA Division 1 level. During live wrestling, I scored twice on their 165 pounder and that guy qualified for the NCAA tournament that season and won a match there. But, even though I understand and appreciate what those athletes can achieve, I still understand why many find the sport boring at that level.

Re: I think I know/appreciate what happens at the NCAA level

Posted by By Pham on 2/23/2023, 12:31 pm, in reply to "I think I know/appreciate what happens at the NCAA level"

BTB is absolutely right on this one. One of the biggest reasons why non-wresters don't watch NCAA or other amateur wrestling is that they don't understand it. Wrestlers can watch a 60 second scramble that ends up in 0 points and can appreciate the athleticism of the scramble whereas the non-wrestler only sees 0 points being scored. Why do you think the NBA and NFL have changed the rules over the years to allow for more high scoring games. I could give you several examples, I'll finish with just one:
On any given random day, if you turn on ESPN, why isn't there NCAA wrestling being played? At the same time, you can see the national corn holing championships are on quite frequently on ESPN. It's because you don't need to understand anything to see how corn holing is played and scored and almost every throw results in a score.
There is a saying: Every system is perfectly designed to give the results it gets. If we want wrestling to be more exciting to the non-wrestler, we may need to change the rules to result in more scoring. Defensive positions have gotten so good that maybe we need to start scoring back exposure like freestyle? Not my preference, but maybe the sport needs a little shakeup.

Good example

Posted by By the Book on 2/23/2023, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Re: I think I know/appreciate what happens at the NCAA level"

By - very good example you cite. The various ESPN channels need content, and in the winter, college wrestling can be had on lots of different days. Yet, as you point out, ESPN does not say to themselves, "Whew, easy source of content to draw our viewers by playing these college wrestling dual meets and tournaments". Instead, they show stuff like Corn Hole or even Poker.
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All of us on this forum love wrestling - and we are in small minority in the sports landscape in the eyes of commercial interests like ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports Online, etc.

Re: Good example

Posted by By Pham on 2/23/2023, 12:45 pm, in reply to "Good example"

Back in the 90's, it was the same way with figure skating. Anyone remember those days?

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