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BMW Mini 2005 - Front passenger ABS sensor fault - Fixed #

Posted by Sandhu Upjeet on November 9, 2014, 6:29 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2005

I need some help on a confusing BMW Mini ABS fault (2005 Cooper)

The car came in with a fault code for N/S/F abs sensor. Did a test drive and viewed live data with Snap_on Modis scanner. The light would come on as the wheel speed on N/S/F dropped out intermittently but quite frequently.

Due to reasonably cheap cost of sensor (£40) I replaced sensor. Now I am getting no speed signal at all from N/S/F. My first thought faultly sensor, so put another on. Same result.

I then put scope into ABS ecu to see signal patterns. It is a Active type abs sensor (12v feed from ECU and earth connection, the resultant signal moves ever so slightly around the 12v. With scope data from both front ABS sensors, the patterns were both fine. But car data still sees no speed from N/S/F in live data.

Ok thoughts turn to faultly ECU. Next step check continuity and resistance of n/s/f and o/s/f abs wiring looms to ecu. both fine and record same values. I then used jumper wires to connect O/S/F abs loom to N/s/F sensor. I got live data via the Modis and car was seeing signal. So this tells me N/S/F ABS sensor and N/S/F abs wheel bearing are ok.

Points towars a faulty n/s/f loom. So I then got jumper wires between O/S/F sensor and N/S/F loom. I get back good live data from MODIS. Confused.

I then used jumper wires to connect the looms and sensors in opposite way (n/s/f loom to o/s/f sensor and vica versa). I get good live data readings and lights stay off dashboard. This proves sensors good, bearings good, loom good, ecu good. However, when I plug n/s/f sensor into n/s/f loom no readings????

I am very confused. Any ideas?

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 10, 2014, 8:43 am, in reply to "BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Mark Carter

Please post your scope patterns from both sensors connected as they should be.

Just one wheel rotation will be enough.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Sandu Upjeet on November 10, 2014, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Edited by board administrator November 10, 2014, 12:53 pm

hi, I tried to upload pico image but it did not recognise format. can pico images be uploaded?

thanks

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 10, 2014, 8:01 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Lee Mackintosh

Copy the saved image/waveform as a jpeg file in paint then upload as an image to the forum.

I think it tells you how to do it when uploading.

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by SHANE GRAY <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2014, 9:51 am, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Shane Gray

I think the abs works off the wheel bearing. Had problems with cheap wheel bearing replacements!
Shane

Fixed #

Posted by Sandhu Upjeet on November 11, 2014, 4:02 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Edited by board administrator November 13, 2014, 10:58 am

FIXED. The non genuine ABS sensor had a difference of 0.15 volts over the genuine BMW one (as measured under high resolution on picoscope Fitted BMW sensor and perfect.

A weird one!

thanks for the replies.

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by andyhyoung <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5148' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2014, 7:15 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Andrew Young

So how much money have you saved by fitting a non-genuine sensor and how much time have you wasted chasing a fault that was not there????

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2014, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Lee Mackintosh

If you buy an ate sensor from a Motor Factors for an ATE system wouldn't you believe this to be a good OE spec sensor but this doesn't always seem to be the case, why is this?

Also why is it Bosch as an example list an oxygen sensor for some VAG cars where bosch is fitted as OE but the bosch aftermarket version from the same manufacturer doesnt work.

Also why do delphi list an aftermarket Delphi ignition coil for an Astra and an OE Delphi ignition coil which I'm asured is exactly the same spec/part although the OE is £30 more expensive.

Which route would you take knowing ignition components are critical but its your profit difference.

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Tony Bickers <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2014, 11:11 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Anthony Bickers

Lee,

To put it bluntly, if you buy shit from a factor purporting to be an OE parts supplier, such as ECP, you deserve all the hassle that you then get,I hear from the trade everyday such statements as for example, " it was a Bosch coil,in a Bosch box,but was half the price,", well, I am sure Bosch do not want their premium product sold off at less than half price, Chinese rubbish, only way to go is buy genuine from the dealer, usually not much more than shark factors charge !

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 11, 2014, 11:54 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Lee Mackintosh

So if you buy a bosch ckp sensor in a bosch box its Chinese rubbish. I have read this many times so how is possible they get a way with this if Its a fact.

Andrew Page sell bosch items as well, are they the same. How do we know if its a genuine bosch sourced component.

I've bought Renault boxed items via AP and ECP, what's the chances of them being reboxed Chinese copies.

Wish I had an understanding customer base that would allow us buying dealer parts only, without a Motor factor supplying me parts I'd be out of business guaranteed.

Toyota Landcruser front wheel bearings, £200 odd from main dealer or SKF bearings for £90, not sure which I'd fit there being skf are meant to be a good bearing manufacturer.

In actual fact you can go on, Subaru clutch kit from dealer is £442 which once opened is an exedy, source one from Andrew Page or ECP which comes in ADL box, open up and inside is an epxeedy clutch kit for £156.

Are exedy going to make 2 different quality clutch kits with the same part numbers on them. Unlikely I think as this surely would be illegal practice.

Ferrodo manufacture latest Focus and Golf front brake pads for OE, they also claim to make aftermarket brake pads to the exact same specification to OE but boxed ferrodo but you just don't kniw what's fact or crap thesedays.

Don't see the point to having OE specifications if they aren't complying and what use are trading standards if ECP can blatantly sell chinese cloned bosch parts. Surprised bosch let it slide really but then I suppose they sell enough washing machines etc not to worry to much about the automotive side.

Doesn't take much thesedays to scrap a car for a couple of wheel bearing replacements where the abs sensor is almost certain to break on removal to allow wheel bearing replacement.

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Tony Bickers <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 12, 2014, 1:31 am, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Anthony Bickers

Sorry Lee,

I am sticking by my last statement, how do you think the likes of ECP and GSF to throw another factor name into the argument can source "genuine" parts in "genuine" packaging at less than half the price of the same part number as OE?

I will give you a prime example as to how clever these sharks are, a couple of years ago I was called into a garage close to me who had a Saab with multiple misfire codes, genuine cassette coil pack around 200 quid, customer bought one from GSF in Saab liveried box, complete with GM hologram for 80 quid, I was back to that garage in two days, the car was undriveable,40 fault codes logged in engine ECU,and same in every other computer on the car, shit Chinese clone coilpack nearly finished this saab off through voltage spiking, genuine item cured all faults, that is why I do not have an ECP or GSF account, my general rule is only use genuine parts on anything 2001 onwards, if you cant see that and only basing repairs on cost, you might have a problem, sorry

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 12, 2014, 8:45 am, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Lee Mackintosh

All motor factors must be the same then selling dodgy chinese clone parts, i've bought what's meant to be genuine Pierburg egr valves with a vauxhall p/n stamped on it for £20 less than from the dealer.

£20 may not be a massive saving but it is when you can charge it out at RRP from the dealers.

Seimmens VDO air flow meter, often cheaper than main dealers and fitted without issue but i must be seriously lucky.

If this is a known fact for ECP or GSF selling inferior quality parts how is it they are still successful and expanding but yet still managing to avoid trading standards or other bodies that could see this a concern to our industry.

Having said that, BBA Reman saga maybe an indication of it doesn' matter what they sell until they get caught out. Never knew what the actual financial costs or as to how it affected them. It probably didn't alter there business at all.

I'll have to leave it there as i don't have enough knowlledge of how it all works but in reality i don't think many business's would survive fitting genuine parts only. Would be nice granted but not ever going to happen in our workshop.

Actually just one last example i've had last week,

Turbo's with electronic control units bolted to them?

Silly money from the dealer around £1300+vat or between £420-£600 dependent on where its sourced from. ECP/AP (btn turbo's) or as in my case Turbo Technics cheap exchange rubbish @ £420

Difficult decision really that one. Maynot be an engine management component but can cause a few problems if the electronic wastegate doesn't work as it should.

Forgot to ask BMW dealer but i'd guess there only exchange units to.

2004 BMW diesel with 120k on the clcck, £2000 to repair it or £1000 to repair it. Which way is the customer going to go and who'd get the job? OK you'd probably argue you wouldn't want that customer then>

Either way the labour rate is going to be the same but more chance of adding a markup on non genuine part.

thanks
lee

Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault

Posted by Tom Williams <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5478' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 12, 2014, 6:00 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW mini Front passenger abs sensor fault"
Thomas Williams

I've not encountered any counterfeit Bosch parts from ECP. It can't solely be down to luck, no-one is lucky every day. Even so, some genuine Bosch parts aren't up to OE spec.
There are times when only a dealer part will do.
Commercial reality dictates that for many older cars, and we repair quite a few, dealer prices would put most of these vehicles on the scrap heap. Either that or they'd go to one of our competitors for repair.

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