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VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley on September 12, 2012, 11:20 am

Year of Manufacture *: N/A

Hi guys

I am doing some research on the TDI PD engine especially the fuel system.

I am hoping to develope some non intrusive testing for accurate diagnosis.

My first question is do I need a damper for my gauge if I want to check/test the output pressure from the tandem pump. I understand the unused pressurized fuel from the injectors gets returned back in to the supply.

I have not put my gauge on the system yet but I am expecting to see a very unstable needle.

What pressures am I to expect?

I do not know yet but I was thinking I may be able to test the integrity of the injectors with a pressure transducer on my scope and live data?

I have got some fuel system info to study first but I would love to hear your opinions on testing techniques and pressures I am to expect from the supply.

Thanks for any input and I will gladly share my findings.

Thanks
James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2012, 8:11 pm, in reply to "VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Mark Carter

Hi james,

The short answer is YES you will.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Dave Hindmarsh on September 12, 2012, 8:12 pm, in reply to "VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Message modified by board administrator September 13, 2012, 2:52 pm

Not sure but I think frank massey tests from a tdi tandam pump port in one of his autoinform videos think it was 5-6 psi but please dont hold me to that I am sure somone will come in and correct me soon lol

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2012, 9:08 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

Thanks Mark,

The reason I asked was another garage asked me how to test the supply, I told them I hadn't done it myself as yet but I knew where the test port was and the needle may flicker slightly due to the design of the system.

They rang back and informed me their gauge needle was now battered and bent. Woops

.

Thanks ukat1214
I will checkout autoinform this instant

James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Andy Evans <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5518' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2012, 10:19 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

What you need is VAS5187 £112.50+vat from VW

https://erwin.volkswagen.de/workshop/englisch/index.htm?https://erwin.volkswagen.de/workshop/englisch/docs_ase/h558.htm

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2012, 10:52 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

Hi Andy

Thanks I will check this out

James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2012, 11:39 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

The preassure reading will be anywhere between 3 & 12 bar depending on Rpm and Engine code.

Without a dampened gauge it will flicker about 2-3 bar.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 8:12 am, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Lee Mackintosh

I thought you could use the gauge with the sight block in it as advertised in the Autoinform online shop.

£150+vat i think and does -1bar upto 10bar so useful for both types of system.

Look on Youtube under Autoinform and you'll see all the video's, i think there's at least 2 that show the use of the gauge.

thanks
lee

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 10:04 am, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
James Eardley

Hi Lee

I have got the ADS gauge with the glass sight and I have watched alot of the Massey videos and have seen him using the gauge but, I can't say I have seen him testing the tandem pump pressures.

I had another look last night but there is alot of videos and they are not in any particular order, I'll keep looking

Thanks for info

James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 11:05 am, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

Hi

I have nearly saved up for the WPS 500 and I can't stop thinking 'outside the box' what I may be able will do with it.

I am curious,

Can anyone confirm if the flicking gauge needle is due to the way the injectors return fuel back in to the supply or is it just the way the tandem pump generates pressure?

Do you think there maybe some diagnostic value regarding the injectors with the WPS monitoring the supply?

I suppose I will have to also consider solenoid and piezo injector function.

I have not had to too many fuel system faults with these engines. But I have noticed that on good running cars the injector corrections on live data appear to never match and have some injectors adding fuel and some taking fuel away.

Is it possible to diagnose injector condition by using live data?

My thinking is I suppose injector correction could be correcting due to compression/other problems.

Can the injector correction add fuel on a cylinder to smooth the engine out due to the cylinder that fired previous having a weak power stroke? This could therefore be misleading.

Is there other accurate dynamic injector testing stratergies that people are sucessfully using?

Thanks again for any input

James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Lee Mackintosh

James,

Thinking about it now, it may not have been Frank himself but one of his workers.

Anton Tzarov (don't know how you spell his name) i think possibly did the demo showing how to connect up to the tandem pump, what to expect at idle and under load etc.

I'd like to know where you can buy all the connector/fittings from as they are very expensive for the few i've seen.

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 9:51 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
James Eardley

Hi Lee

Ive not been in long but i will find that clip if it kills me,
Thanks for pointers

Regarding the pressure gauge fittings,
I can not find them anywhere and I have tried.

Where have you seen them, how much are they?

I have bought various fuel pipes from the dealers so I can make up some quick testing rigs but can not find the fittings.

I have Been to some of my local hydraulic fitting firms.

Frank told me they were called CNJ fittings (If I remember correctly) something to do with the Navy.

After you mentioned it earlier, I rang ADS and Annette tried to ring their supplier to get a part number for me.

They didn't answer but on Monday when Frank is back off holiday she is going to ring me with a price and a part number.

Ill keep you informed.

James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Andrew West <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5350' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 10:04 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Andrew West

Hello all,
i'm pretty sure it was Frank that did the clip on pd tandem pumps.
As regards, using the wps, I have tried it on an audi pd with a slight misfire at idle & was expecting to see a fluctuation whilst triggering off an injector current, but was unable to determine any regular pattern. The compensations were fairly even from memory & there was no sign of oil contamination through the tandem pump. I am still waiting for the next Landrover TD5 to be able to check out a misfire/leaking injector seal on.
There are two different expected pressures, which I think depends on the make of Tandem pump fitted, either Bosch or LUK. I think one is around 3 bar & the other 7 bar at idle,but will have to check to make sure.
Regards, Andrew

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Power on September 13, 2012, 11:23 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Message modified by board administrator September 17, 2012, 1:09 pm

Hi James

I know I have some info on this buried on a laptop in the workshop, cant remember where I got it. Il check tomorrow and if its useful I will send it on.

Jim.

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by lee mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2012, 11:42 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Lee Mackintosh

Well i've ordered the sight block gauge as I got a refund from paypal so with some money added to it I thought it will be useful.

I'm sure sykes-pickavant sell some connector pipes for psa & renault but as I said aren't cheap.

Not sure if there compatable with the fittings on the sight block but Frank did say they are a common/standard connector as used by othet company's now.

Not always easy to make fittings either especially when your busy.

I keep meaning to cut a few off cars in the scrap yard but you'll still need the coupler ends fitting to pipes.

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2012, 7:27 am, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

>>> Is it possible to diagnose injector condition by using live data?

My thinking is I suppose injector correction could be correcting due to compression/other problems.

Can the injector correction add fuel on a cylinder to smooth the engine out due to the cylinder that fired previous having a weak power stroke? This could therefore be misleading.

Is there other accurate dynamic injector testing strategies that people are successfully using? <<<

Again the short answer is YES.

Sounds like you would benefit from the two day Bosch PD course. 90% of your questions/ideas would be tested/proved/discused over the two days.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Jon Morgan <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3190' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2012, 11:19 am, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Jonathan Morgan

Hi James, regarding tandem pump pressure testing - you will need a gauge with a glycerine filled sight glass.
A conventional gauge will give you no plausible reading due to the massive & rapid fluctuations.
If the gauge you use isn't a glycerine filled type I wouldn't be surprised if the needle fell off it bounces so fast.

Andy Evans pointed you towards the reasonably priced VAG gauge.

Mark Carter gave you the correct pressure readings, but again - you would need to be able to see the gauge needle to read the pressure

hth,
Jon.

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Jim Power <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3202' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2012, 12:56 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
James Power

Hi James

As above post, this is where I got it. Diesel forum,
Memory must be going,

VW 1.9 TDI PD Diesel Engines (Pumpe Duse) # - Peter Warman March 2, 2011, 8:32 pm

Jim

jim power

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2012, 1:57 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
James Eardley

Hi guys

Thanks for all reply's I am not been rude I will get back to you all
I am just under a bit of pressure today to get jobs out, I'm sure you know the feeling

Thanks again
James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2012, 7:39 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

Hi guys

Mark,
I have got some money in my funds for training and I looked at this course first as it is on my Bosch Diagnostic Technician Programme and I could kill two birds with one stone. The only thing is there are apparently no courses in my area according to the Auto Education website.

Do you know of any PD courses that are coming up I am always willing to travel with in reason?

Due to lack of courses, my plan for now is to spend the funds on SRS and gasoline direct injection training and figure out the PD system my self. Luckily there is some good info on the PD which is a bonus.

Andrew,
Thanks for your sharing input using WPS on tandem pump.

Did you save the captures?

Was the waveform a uniform pattern or just a mass of unuseable pressure fluctuations?

Did the problem turn out to be an injector issue?

After seeing the wave form do you think the fluctuations are a result of tandem pump pressure generation or the way the injectors operate?

UKAT3202
Any info you have would be gratefully recieved thanks for the offer of routing through your lap top

Jon,
Thanks for your info regarding the gauges.

I have checked out the gauge Andy suggested and it is reasonably priced and also the VAG correct tool to use.
But, I have decided to put the money I would spend on the VAG gauge in the WPS pot and go ahead and buy the WPS.

Also, I think I will get alot more use/fun/education out of the WPS.

Jim,
Thanks for the useful link. Also I have luckily got access to a 2003 golf TDI PD to do some testing on. So, should learn something.

cheers guys
James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2012, 10:14 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Mark Carter

Hi James,

What part of the country are you in?

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2012, 11:07 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
James Eardley

Mark
I am in south Yorkshire

Thanks
James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by Andrew west <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5350' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2012, 7:31 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"
Andrew West

Hello James,
Here are the captures from an A3 BKD engine fuel system .

WPS on return vs injector current

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

pressure at tandem pump test port vs injector

]

zoomed in of both ;

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

These uploaded images are a bit poor. The psdata files are a lot clearer.

I had a Citroen Hpi in that when testing the fuel supply just before the pump it was pretty obvious that there was a fault with the high pressure pump, but infortunately I didn't save the image.
Regards, Andrew

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Alan Lange <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2012, 8:53 pm, in reply to "VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hello James, is this the clip you're looking for? .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGpTAlivaxM

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Alan Ganter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3444' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2012, 9:19 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Alan Ganter

That above clip shows testing fuel pressure on a FSI petrol engine. And not a PD diesel

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Alan Lange <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2012, 9:45 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Alan Lange

Very sorry, I've just watched it properly-feel a right idiot now!

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2012, 9:49 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

Andrew

FANTASTIC!!!!

I could not have wished for more

Well.....
Just one more thing

I dont mean to be cheeky

If the file isn't too big could you send me the psdata via email.

Looking at the capture I don't think the tandem pump could generate the pressure fluctuations seen.

I will double check but i am sure the pump has 3 pumping chambers and ther are 4 signiture 'humps'
in your capture, on both the supply and return.

Maybe there is some diagnostic value?????

Is the capture Fast idle then Reduced to Idle?

I wonder if the notch in the 'hump' is due to piolet and main injection.

Thanks
James

PM sent..

EDITED.
I just realised I do not know how to send a PM
Here is my email

jeardley213@gmail.com

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2012, 9:58 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
James Eardley

Hi Alan

There is no need to feel like an idiot!!!!
I appreciate your efforts

I have not seen the clip yet but it will certainly come in handy with my direct injection quest.

Thanks
James

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 18, 2012, 6:29 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Mark Carter

Please be aware that the control of GDI fuel systems are COMPLETELY different form the PD.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 18, 2012, 8:15 pm, in reply to "VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hi Lee

ADS phoned me today regarding the hydraulic couplings for the ADS gauge.

He put me in touch with his supplier,

Tom Parker LTD
Marsh Lane Mill
Marsh Lane
Preston
PR1 8RT

01772 255109

They do have a website and will ship orders P&P is £11.75.

I spoke to a bloke called Ian Howarth he was very helpful, he told me to send him a a photo of the couplings at the side of a 2pence and he emailed me the appropriate catalogue page and prices.

IIRC orders over 20 of the connector FS900 he could give a 25% discount. (I have got it wrote down at work Ill double check)

I think it works out at basically £2 a connector with P&p and VAT.

I think that is reasonable, do you?

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 18, 2012, 9:59 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Lee Mackintosh

James,

Sorry mate i think i've mislead you, i actually meant the manufacturer specific connectors so you can just break into the fuel circuit and fit the gauge inline.

So for example,

disconnect the fuel in pipe at the fuel filter, connect with proper connector to the feed pipe and connect the other side of the gauge fitting to the fuel filter housing again with the correct fittig.

It can be done as Frank Massey clearly states this in one of his video clips.

This is far easier and less time consuming than tring to bodge up your own.

thanks
lee

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 18, 2012, 10:51 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Aidan Birley

hi

This kit is useful for both testing & repairs

http://www.delphipartsstore.co.uk/Product-689/Delphi-Tooling/9109-947

http://www.delphipartsstore.co.uk/Product-689/Delphi-Tooling/9109-94

Cheers Aidan

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 18, 2012, 11:39 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hi Lee

I think we are both saying the same thing in different ways LOL

The gauge comes with these fittings attached

In order to connect anything including manufacturer specific connector to the gauge, you will need these fittings.

Of course the gauge comes with 2 of these fittings, but surely 2 isn't enough?

I'm sorry if I am absolutly missing the point.

The actual manufacturer specific fuel supply pipes I have collected are from the breakers and the dealers. I have bought some for as little as £9 pound from the dealers.

James

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 7:50 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Lee Mackintosh

thanks Aidan & James.

Aidan,

That delphi kit does look very useful, i'll have to buy one sometime. Its all money out lately.

James,

I probably didn't explain my self to well i nthe 1st place but we've got threre in the end.

Its a shame ADS don't offer different levels of the siight block.

Gauge only
Gauge + Filter
Gauge and fittings/pipes

I would've bought the complete kit if it was at a reasonable price.

thanks
lee

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Glyn Morgan <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT2543' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 8:42 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Glyn Morgan

Good morning all,

Just to add if you use WPS 500 you need another style of fitting.

It is the one used by AST in their diesel compression test kits.

Regards Glyn

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 10:29 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
James Eardley

Hi Andrew

Thanks for your email, I see what you mean on the data file. It is hard to say wether or not the injectors were giving your car troubles or even if there is any diagnostic value regarding the PD injectors with this testing method.

I am going to suspend my thoughts on this theory just for now, until I get the WPS. This post has really got me curious.

For closure on the diagnostic value of the pressure fluctuations I think we would need to disable an injector and make some other system faults and go from there.

I spoke to Frank yesterday regarding the hydraulic fittings for the ADS gauge. I asked him, his thoughts on the needle fluctuations. He had assumed that the fluctuations were due to the tandem pump generating pressure, but his honest answer was that he did not know for sure.

He also asked if he could see your capture would it be ok to pass it on to him?

Also, he said that he doesn't use a dampener with the ADS gauge because he said it could potentially filter out any cavitation problems and the gauge could handle the fluctuations.

I am going to bite the bullet and order the WPS today.

Thanks again Andrew for all your time and effort.

Aiden
Thanks for The link regarding the connector fittings.

Glyn
I think I am going to end up having hydraulic coupling fitting nightmares LOL

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Jon Morgan <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3190' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 1:45 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Jonathan Morgan

James, that comment about cavitation interests me - how would you know if the undamped gauge is acting as though it's break dancing naturally, with the pressure fluctuations naturally present in this system or whether it is due to cavitation?

Jon.

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Andrew West <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=UKAT5350' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 1:55 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
Andrew West

Hello James,
Feel free to pass the files on to Frank or any one else. I will try to get time to post them on the FMN forum later & on here.
I am expecting to be able to see compression blow by on the next TD5 engine that I have an injector sealing washer problem on( sods law , I haven't had any for a while, probably because all the other garages around me now know what to look for), I also think that it should show up a crack in the cylinder head in the fuel gallery on any unit injector type system. I forgot to say to you that these captures were taken at WOT then back to idle & that in an earlier post I mentioned two different pressures, which are more like two different expected max pressures of 7 bar & 11 bar? from memory(i still haven't had time to check, but should as I probably got it wrong again , as in my earlier post).
With the HPi system I couldn't match the pump pulses with the injector opening , but could see a regular low pressure suction pulse which was on every third oscillation, which could only be the high pressure pump. I did measure the current draw from the in tank pump & presure with engine off, which showed no faults.
The customer(a car sales person's own car, who needed his car to drive to the olympics as he was part of the shooting team

) still thought that the fault could have been the pressure control valve & changed it first as it was about half the cost of the high pressure pump & he had already replaced the pump a couple of years before. He was good enough to call me & tell me that he had replaced the pressure control valve first & then changed the pump after finding that the new valve didnt make any difference.
Regards, Andrew

ps. I had already bought a Sealy master compression tester kit, which I managed to make an adaptor for to use for compression testing. You can nuy extra connectors for the wps500 from Pico. I also use old fuel connector blocks(pressure regulator) from Landrover TD5's as quick connections for various jobs.

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 2:31 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hi Jon

The cavitation would be seen in the sight block,
I have posted a picture of the ADS gauge in my post from yesterday if you are not familiar with it.

hth
Cheers
James

Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge

Posted by David evason <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 8:58 pm, in reply to "Re: VW,AUDI,SEAT,SKODA, Do I need a damper for my gauge"

Error

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by David evason <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 9:00 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hi James,
The video your after is on one of ADS's diagnostic workshop dvds. I think it's dvd 4 under testing vehicle supply systems. I think we both got one given to us at the training session we were both at.
Also the fittings for the gauges are also called Rectus 21 as I have also bought some of these.
Hope that helps pal.
Dave

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 19, 2012, 9:34 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
James Eardley

Hi David

How you doin?

Good to hear from you.

It is funny you should mention those DVD, at the time
I bought those my laptop at the time played them.

My new laptop does not play them and I remember you having trouble.

What format do they need?

Any advice?

Cheers
James

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 20, 2012, 8:17 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
James Eardley

David

Crossed wires I think, I have found the DVD you mentioned this morning.
Ill have a look today.

Cheers
James

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by Tony Attwood <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3025' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 20, 2012, 10:24 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hi James,

Should your DVD not play, There are two PD testing clips you can watch online via the Autoinform Video archive.

Link below.

Tony

Link: Autoinform Video archive

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by David evason <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 3, 2012, 9:17 pm, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"
David Evason

Hi James ,
Sorry for the late reply.
I'm doing good matey, still learning everyday !
How's things with you ? Are you booked onto any more courses ?
I was going to say about those DVDs that they re in one of the set of 5 diagnostic ones which played ok for me. It was one of the fuel trim e learning modules that I had trouble with. I got it working in the end, don't know how though !!
Cheers,
Dave

Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members4.boardhost.com/ukautotalk/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 20, 2012, 1:05 am, in reply to "Re: VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda - Do I need a damper for my gauge #"

Hi guys,
Ive just been reading through this thread, thanks for all your helpful replys.

The post I said 'I am going to bite the bullet and buy the WPS500'

Well,
Not long after my MOT brake rollers decided to throw a wobbly and stop working

2 days later and £500 out of my WPS fund the rollers were working again.

Anyway,
UPS dropped me a WPS500x KIT off earlier today

so I will try and put the pressure fluctuation theory to bed.

Ive not had chance to use it yet, I plan on having a practice with it this week and then next weekend I will get the 2003 golf TDI and attempt make some fuel system faults.

Cant wait

Cheers
James

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