I wanted to write about this topic for a long time but never got to it. It can't be delayed any longer now when Edomites commit genocide against Palestinians in Gaza. Yes, Edomites, not Jews. This isn't a new school of thought, Elan wrote about this on this forum few years ago. I don't think that many theologians accept this view, especialy not in USA.
The idea is that all those calling themselves Jews today are Edomites and the entity calling itself Israel is Edom and the true Israel is the Church. The part of that school of thought I agree with is that modern Israel is Edom. Esau has indeed deceived the whole world disguising himself as Israel in the same way that Israel deceived their father disguising as Esau to take the blessing of the firstborn. However, not all those calling themselves Jews are Edomites and ekklesia certainly isn't Israel. Paul made the case clear about the repentance of true Israel and its distinction from the Gentile believers (Romans 11:18-26).
How can we know who of those calling themselves Jews are real Jews? First, Sabbath keeping:
Exod 31:13 Thou thyself, therefore, speak unto the sons of Israel, saying,––Surely, my sabbaths, shall ye keep,––for, a sign, it is betwixt me and you, to your generations, that ye may know that, I––Yahweh, do hallow you.
So, Sabbath keeping is the first sign to identify a Jew. Next sign is keeping all of the Law:
Deut 11:18 Thou shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
When Antichrist perverts the Law this will be the Mark of the Beast as Dr Martin correctly understood, but it is also another sign to identify real Jews. So, those among modern Jews that keep the Sabbath and whole of the Law with zeal are the true Jews. Like this one speaking in this video:
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As Rabbi Shapiro explained in this lecture, Zionism was anti-judaism and it never had any basis in the Bible except misusing it for its agenda like when Netanyahu quotes it to justify the genocide he is committing. The thing I disagree with him is that being a Jew isn't only about religion but is about both religion and ethnicity. If it wasn't about ethnicity as well we wouldn't have all those detailed genealogies for every Israelite tribe in the Book of Chronicles.
Now, someone might argue that keeping the Law with zeal can't be used to identify real Jews since they always fell away again and again from obeying God and yet they still remained Jews. Following that train of thought modern secular Jews will eventually get back to God like the ancient ones did, right? Wrong! There is one interesting prophecy that answers that question:
Hos 3:1 Then said Yahweh unto me, Once more, go love a woman who loveth a friend, and is an adulteress,––according to the love of Yahweh unto the sons of Israel, though they keep turning away unto other gods, and love [idolatrous] raisin–cakes. Hos 3:2 So I secured her to me, for fifteen pieces of silver,––and a homer of barley, and a half–homer of barley; Hos 3:3 and I said unto her, Many days, shalt thou tarry for me, thou shalt not be unchaste, neither shalt thou become another manfs,––moreover also, I, [will tarry] for thee. Hos 3:4 For, many days, shall the sons of Israel tarry, without king, and without ruler, and without sacrifice, and without pillar; and without ephod, or household gods. Hos 3:5 Afterwards, shall the sons of Israel return, and seek Yahweh their God, and David their king,––and shall turn with throbbing hearts unto Yahweh and unto his goodness, in the afterpart of the days.
This prophecy is for the period after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD because Jews had kings from the Hasmonean dynasty during the Hellenistic period and there were sacrifices during the Second Temple era. It would seem that modern Israel fits in this prophecy. However, are all those calling themselves Jews waiting for God in chastity? No, they are living according to the way of this evil world, they don't care about God and they certainly don't want to live in a theocratic state as Israel must be according to the Bible. Is this the army of a nation that is waiting for God?
Of course it isn't but it is of Esau, the man who never cared about obeying God and living a godly life. Modern Israel has nothing to do with ancient Israel but is a Zionist creation of people who were not only atheists but also opposed to everything that represents being a Jew. Satan has deceived the whole world with this false Israel that is in fact Edom.
But how did Edomites become part of Jewish people? The answer is here: Edom
"Conversion to Judaism
Around 110 BCE, Hasmonean leader John Hyrcanus I conquered Idumaea. According to several ancient sources, including Josephus and Ptolemy, he forcibly converted them to Judaism,[56] and incorporated them into the Jewish nation:[57][41]
Hyrcanus also captured the Idumean cities of Adora and Marisa and after subduing all the Idumeans, permitted them to remain in their country as long as they had themselves circumcised and were willing to observe the laws of the Jews. And so, out of attachment to the land of their fathers, they submitted to circumcision and to make their manner of life conform in all other respects to that of the Jews. And from that time onward they have continued to be Jews.[58]"
The conversion to Judaism started the process of assimilation of Edomites into Jewish people. There are some more interesting details:
"First Jewish–Roman War
By 66 CE, during the First Jewish–Roman War, the Zealot leader Simon bar Giora attacked the Jewish converts of Upper Idumaea, and brought near complete destruction to the surrounding villages and countryside in that region.[66]
According to Josephus, during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE by Titus, 20,000 Idumaeans, under the leadership of John, Simon, Phinehas, and Jacob, joined the Zealots as they besieged the Temple.[67]
After the Jewish–Roman wars, the Idumaean people disappear from written history, though the geographical region of "Idumea" is still referred to at the time of Jerome.[41]"
Now, where did the Edomites from Idumea "disappear" after the Temple was destroyed? They became part of the Jewish people and lost their identity after a few generations. That's the only logical explanation in accordance with the prophecy from Hoshea 3. Only those strictly keeping the Law are Jews (Ultra-Orthodox and maybe Karaite Jews) and many of them aren't likable - some of them spit on Christians coming on pilgrimage to Jerusalim, others are racists and Jewish supremacists but all of them reject Christ and accept some false rabbinical teachings but they are zealous for the Law. Time is approaching when God will open their eyes to the truth of Christ and they will repent for rejecting Him (Zechariah 12:10).
The rest are Edomites and maybe even Moabites, Ammonites and Amalekites. False Israel is a divided society which can be seen from this research:
It is very possible that not only Edom, but Moab, Ammon and Amalek will be birthed from many people that are currently part of Israel when God expels them from the Holy Land because it doesn't belong to them. Real Jews will take over Israel and turn it into a theocracy. Assimilation of Edom into Israel came through religious conversion of whole nation of Idumea. It is possible that Moabites, Ammonites and Amalekites didn't assimilate with the Arabs but with Jews though it's impossible to track it as we can with Edom because there was no collective conversion in this case. Since history repeats, it would make sense because Lot lived in Canaan land at first, as did Esau.
Things will become clearer in the period ahead of us since we are rapidly approaching collapse of modern civilization which must happen before prophecies of end times commence as I wrote here many times.
Re: Modern Israel = Edom
Posted by Ross on November 20, 2023, 8:57 pm, in reply to "Modern Israel = Edom"
G'day Boki: Indeed real Jews need to be separated from the goats. Same with real Christians being separated from those claiming to be god'driven Christians. The flesh from the Spirit. Things appear to be spiralling down the drain and gathering speed. This could be like in Revelations where there is reference to things happening in one hour. Definitely watching what is happening over there in Israel. Cheers
Re: Modern Israel = Edom
Posted by John on November 27, 2023, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Modern Israel = Edom"
So… October 7th, the butchery, rape, torture, murder… of civilian’s All that and civilian hostages of every age… All that by Armed soldiers… All that… was OK by you… Boki…???
The goal of the Hamas attack was a military one - they humiliated Edomite army and some of Hamas' and other soldiers did commit atrocities during that operation. That always happens in war, some people show their monstruous nature especially when the hatred is great. It's tough living in the biggest open concentration camp with wall that Gaza is for more than 15 years and in apartheid state that False Israel is for 75 years. Many of Hamas fighters lost their families while they were kids in the same bombings like now. They lost everything and hatred and desire for revenge is what drives some of them. I can't justify some things they did against Edom and against my fellow Serbs because some of Hamas' fighters fought against Serbs in Bosnian war in the nineties but I can understand them because we Serbs were bombed by the satanic West led by USA and we know how it is to be oppressed. Commit evil as West and the Edomites have done and you will also be on the receiving end one day like USA was on 9/11.
However, the response from Edom was revenge on civilians, indiscriminate bombing with goal of ethnic cleansing of Gaza so they could annex it. They killed over 10000 civilians and over 5000 kids! Do you know that there are Christian Palestinians in Gaza? Why don't American Christians care about them but choose idolatry toward Edomites, the children of Satan and descendants of Cain? True Jews have almost no power in False Israel and some of them even consider False Israel to be illegitimate since they are still being in divine exile for the sins of their ancestors, even if they live in the Holy Land. Most of them aren't even serving in the army for reasons explained by Rabbi Shapiro:
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Even if this was really the state of Jews, the Palestinians as sojourners are being oppressed and that breaks the Law:
Exod 22:21 'And a sojourner thou dost not oppress, nor crush him, for sojourners ye have been in the land of Egypt.
However, it isn't Jewish state but a masterful deception by Satan, it is his state - Edom. Christians mustn't support Edom or Hamas but should help civilians on both sides in any way they can, especially the Palestinian ones because they are suffering the most. One of the hostages still kept by Hamas is a Serbian citizen Alon Ohel:
