Paul .... my take on it....

It’s a very interesting thing to consider.
I remember giving it some thought at one point during the beginning of my time wit the Trio. By this I mean about a 15 year period when I went to the shows and spent time with the guys before and after shows and spent some quality time with Bob and Nick and George, plus Ben and Tom.
During this time, I wondered … why am I doing this?
I also wondered … why are they doing this?
The easy answer for them was … it’s a way to make a living.
But, what a way to make a living … to do it … you have to stay away from home most of the time.
That’s a pretty big sacrifice.
Particularly if you’re married and you have kids.
So, why do it?
Because something deep from inside cannot be denied.
Where did those words come from?
How did they pop into my mind ???????????
I asked ChatGPT this question and it found the answer.
Here it is: "They asked me how I knew my true love was true. Oh, I of course replied, something here inside cannot be denied."
“Smoke gets in your eyes.”

They asked me how I knew,
My true love was true,
Oh, I of course replied,
Something here inside,
Cannot be denied.

They said someday you'll find,
All who love are blind,
Oh, when your heart's on fire,
You must realize,
Smoke gets in your eyes.

So I chaffed them, and I gaily laughed,
To think they could doubt our love,
Yet today, my love has flown away,
I am without my love.
Now laughing friends deride,
Tears I cannot hide,
So I smile and say,
When a lovely flame dies,
Smoke gets in your eyes.

It says…This romantic ballad was originally written by Jerome Kern and Otto Harbach for the 1933 musical Roberta, and it has been famously performed by The Platters since 1958.





The song has an interesting history …..
Read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_Gets_in_Your_Eyes

I asked ChatGPT the following: The song, "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" was written for the 1933 musical comedy Roberta. What was the reason for this song in this musical?
ChatGPT said:
In the 1933 musical Roberta, "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" is sung by the character Hickory. The song is a poignant expression of heartbreak and romantic longing, reflecting Hickory's emotional state after realizing that the woman he loves may not return his affections.
The context of the song within the musical is tied to Hickory's relationship with Stephanie. In the scene, Hickory, a character who works at a fashionable boutique, is heartbroken because of his unrequited love for her. He attempts to hide his sorrow and disappointment but cannot help but express his deep feelings through the song. The lyrics convey the idea that emotions like love are overwhelming and difficult to escape, symbolized by the line "Something here inside cannot be denied," which touches on the internal conflict of holding onto love while facing its painful realities.
The song was crafted to capture the theme of romantic idealism versus reality, and it became one of the most famous and enduring songs from the show. It perfectly encapsulates the mood of the character and the challenges of love, making it an iconic moment in the musical.

I asked ChatGPT: What do you mean by romantic idealism versus reality?
ChatGPT said:
"Romantic idealism versus reality" refers to the tension between how love or relationships are often imagined or idealized in our minds versus how they actually unfold in real life.
Romantic idealism is the belief or fantasy that love should be perfect, pure, and flawless. It’s influenced by cultural portrayals of love—movies, literature, songs—that depict an idealized version of relationships, where everything feels magical, effortless, and always ends happily. People who experience romantic idealism may hold onto the belief that love should always make them feel happy and complete, without facing the messiness or struggles that come with real relationships.
Reality, on the other hand, is the truth of how love plays out in actual life. It’s often imperfect, complicated, and full of challenges. People in relationships experience disagreements, disappointment, unmet expectations, and heartbreak. They may not always feel the passion or connection they once thought was guaranteed, and love can sometimes fade or face obstacles that challenge the romantic dream.
In the context of Smoke Gets in Your Eyes, Hickory is grappling with this contrast. He has an idealized view of love—believing that his feelings for Stephanie should be reciprocated in a perfect, romantic way. But reality sets in when he faces the pain of unrequited love, and the song reflects his struggle between holding onto that idealized vision and coming to terms with the emotional truth of his situation.
The line "something here inside cannot be denied" expresses this inner conflict—he can’t deny the feelings he has, but he also can’t ignore the reality that they might not be returned, revealing the difficult gap between what he hoped for and what he's facing.
I would submit … that what Bob Shane and his merry other two partners and the rest of the band were after was FAME.
So, I asked ChatGPT in the context of … Smoke Gets in your eyes ….
What if the love that someone is after is fame?

What can you say about this?
ChatGPT said:
When someone is chasing fame instead of love, the dynamic between idealism and reality still applies, but in a different way. Romantic idealism in the context of fame might involve the belief that fame will bring ultimate happiness, fulfillment, recognition, and power. People often imagine fame as something that will provide a sense of purpose, admiration, and personal validation. This idealized view can be influenced by stories of celebrities, their glamorous lifestyles, and the societal worship of famous figures.
However, reality can be quite different. The pursuit of fame often involves hard work, sacrifice, and a great deal of personal compromise. The reality of fame can include:
1. Loss of privacy: Celebrities often have their personal lives exposed to the public, leading to a constant feeling of being watched.
2. Pressure to maintain an image: People who are famous are expected to constantly uphold an image, which can be emotionally and mentally draining.
3. Loneliness and isolation: Despite being surrounded by people, many famous individuals report feeling isolated, as true connections can become difficult when others treat them differently because of their fame.
4. Erosion of genuine relationships: Fame can lead to people seeking relationships based on what someone can offer them (status, money, connections), rather than authentic connection.
5. Fleeting nature of fame: Fame can be temporary. A celebrity’s status may wane, and many find that the pursuit of fame doesn't provide lasting satisfaction or fulfillment once the novelty wears off.
The desire for fame can be rooted in self-worth issues, where someone feels that they will only be valuable if they are recognized and admired by others. It may also reflect a deep desire for validation from the outside world rather than building a solid internal sense of value.
Idealism vs. Reality of Fame
• Idealism: Fame represents validation, success, and happiness. It feels like the ultimate achievement, where all personal dreams and goals are fulfilled.
• Reality: Fame often brings complexity, pressure, and even isolation. It doesn’t guarantee happiness or inner peace and can sometimes exacerbate feelings of emptiness or anxiety.
Many famous figures—whether in entertainment, sports, or business—have publicly spoken about the downside of fame and how it doesn't live up to the expectations they had earlier in life. The idealization of fame can overshadow the emotional toll it takes, much like the way romantic idealism can obscure the complexity of real relationships. In the end, the pursuit of fame can be a double-edged sword, where someone may eventually realize that the internal satisfaction they sought was never truly in the external recognition they chased.
So, in my opinion, I think Bob, Dave and Nick wanted fame. As did John and everyone is all of the various Trio versions.

Why do some people want fame?
ChatGPT said:
The desire for fame is complex and can stem from a variety of psychological, cultural, and social factors. Here are some of the most common reasons why some people pursue fame:
1. Desire for Validation and Recognition
• External Validation: Many people seek fame as a way to feel validated and acknowledged by others. In a society that often rewards visibility and public success, fame can be seen as a tangible measure of one's worth and abilities.
• Admiration: Fame offers the possibility of receiving admiration, praise, and recognition from others, which can boost self-esteem and a sense of importance.
2. Need for Significance and Influence
• Desire for Impact: Fame can provide individuals with a platform to influence others or bring attention to causes they care about. Famous people can shape opinions, set trends, and leave lasting legacies.
• Ego Boost: For some, fame serves as a way to feel significant or powerful. It can be a means of asserting dominance or authority in a particular field or society as a whole.
3. Aspiration for Wealth and Luxury
• Material Gain: Fame often brings financial rewards. The perception of fame can lead to increased earning opportunities, endorsements, or other financial benefits, appealing to those who equate fame with wealth and luxury.
• Access to Exclusive Lifestyles: Many people associate fame with the ability to live a glamorous life, travel the world, attend exclusive events, and surround themselves with wealth and luxury.
4. Psychological Needs
• Recognition of Identity: For some, fame is linked to a desire for their unique identity or talents to be acknowledged. They might feel that their worth is only validated when others recognize them for their abilities, accomplishments, or appearance.
• Escape from Insecurity: People with deep-seated feelings of insecurity or low self-worth might turn to fame as a way to compensate for those internal struggles. They may see fame as a way to gain the approval they have not received elsewhere in their lives.
5. Cultural and Societal Influence
• Media and Pop Culture: In today's world, fame is often idealized in media, television, movies, and social media. Celebrities and influencers are frequently shown as living perfect lives, making fame seem like the ultimate goal.
• Social Comparison: With the rise of social media platforms, people constantly compare themselves to others. If they see others gaining attention, followers, or recognition, they might aspire to achieve the same status, even if it's not a conscious decision.
6. Fame as a Path to Belonging
• Desire to Be Seen: Humans have an inherent need to be noticed and valued within their social groups. Fame can provide this sense of belonging by making someone the center of attention and giving them a sense of importance in the larger world.
• Community and Admiration: For some, fame gives them access to a community of fans, friends, or fellow celebrities who admire and support them, which can create a sense of connection and social fulfillment.
7. Fame as a Form of Rebellion or Defiance
• Challenging Norms: Some individuals may seek fame to rebel against societal norms or expectations. They might view fame as a way to express their individuality and challenge conventional ideas about success or lifestyle.
• Against the Grain: People who feel overlooked or marginalized may use fame as a way to disrupt the status quo and make their voice heard in ways they might not have been able to otherwise.
8. Self-Expression and Creativity
• Artistic Drive: For artists, musicians, writers, or creators, fame can serve as a recognition of their work. Being in the public eye can provide an opportunity for their creative work to be appreciated, giving them a broader audience and influence.
• Desire to Share Talent: Some people seek fame because they want to share their unique skills, talents, or perspectives with the world, whether through music, art, performance, or other creative outlets.
9. Fear of Being Forgotten
• Legacy: Some individuals pursue fame in the hopes of leaving a lasting legacy. The idea of being remembered after death is a powerful motivator for many, especially in cultures where fame is equated with immortality.
• Avoiding Obscurity: Fame can be seen as a way to avoid being forgotten or overlooked, a desire to ensure that one’s existence or contributions are never lost to time.
10. Social Media and Instant Gratification
• Instant Validation: In today’s digital world, fame is often achieved through social media platforms, where likes, shares, and comments provide immediate validation. This instant feedback loop can create an addictive desire for more attention and approval from others.
• Influencer Culture: Social media has fostered a culture where anyone can potentially become famous, especially through platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. This democratization of fame has led many to believe they, too, can gain celebrity status with the right following and content.
In conclusion, fame offers a complex mix of psychological rewards (validation, significance), social benefits (belonging, admiration), and material gains (wealth, luxury). While some people are motivated by a genuine desire to make an impact or share their talents, others may seek fame to compensate for unmet psychological needs or societal pressures. However, it's important to recognize that while fame may bring short-term benefits, the long-term reality can often fall short of the idealized vision people have.
You said:
What sacrifices have to be made to acquire fame and to keep fame?
ChatGPT said:
The pursuit and maintenance of fame often come with significant sacrifices. These sacrifices can affect an individual's personal life, mental health, privacy, and relationships, and can vary depending on the level of fame a person achieves. Here are some key sacrifices that people may face when acquiring and keeping fame:
1. Loss of Privacy
• Public Scrutiny: Once someone becomes famous, they are often subject to constant public scrutiny. Their every move, whether it's on social media, in public, or in private, can be watched, commented on, and criticized.
• Invasive Media Attention: Celebrities often face paparazzi, gossip magazines, and intrusive questions. Their personal lives, including their relationships, family matters, and even their health, become subject to public opinion and scrutiny.
• Lack of Normalcy: People who are famous may find it difficult to experience simple, everyday activities (like going to a grocery store or walking down the street) without being recognized or disturbed by fans or media.
2. Strain on Personal Relationships
• Loss of Authentic Connections: Fame can make it hard to maintain genuine, trust-based relationships. Some people may only want to be around a famous individual because of their status or the benefits it provides, which can lead to feelings of isolation or distrust.
• Family and Friends: Maintaining close relationships with family and friends can be challenging when fame requires time away, constant travel, or the need to manage multiple social obligations. Some celebrities report growing apart from loved ones as they spend more time in the spotlight.
• Romantic Relationships: Romantic relationships often struggle under the weight of fame. Infidelity, jealousy, and the intense pressures of the public eye can cause rifts in personal partnerships. Celebrities often have to balance their romantic lives with the demands of maintaining their public image.
3. Emotional and Mental Health Challenges
• Pressure and Anxiety: The need to meet high expectations and the constant pressure to succeed or maintain a certain image can lead to stress, anxiety, and burnout. Many famous individuals struggle with feelings of inadequacy or the fear of losing their status.
• Identity Crisis: The constant need to perform and meet others' expectations can create a loss of self-identity. Famous individuals may begin to feel disconnected from their true selves and only view themselves through the lens of their public persona.
• Loneliness: Despite the attention and admiration from fans, fame can be lonely. Celebrities often feel that they can't trust anyone or that no one truly understands their struggles, leading to isolation and sometimes even depression.
4. Time and Energy Commitments
• Constant Workload: Fame often requires relentless work, whether it's maintaining a social media presence, attending events, doing interviews, or continuously performing. The demand for output can lead to exhaustion, leaving little time for rest or relaxation.
• Lack of Personal Time: Famous individuals often have little time to themselves, as their schedules are dictated by media obligations, promotional appearances, and public events. This can make it difficult to take time off, pursue hobbies, or enjoy a sense of normalcy.
5. Sacrificing Anonymity
• Being Always "On": Fame means that a person is always "on," constantly performing or representing their brand. Celebrities often feel the pressure to always look perfect, act a certain way, or stay in the public eye. This can be exhausting and lead to a sense of losing themselves in the process.
• Lack of Space to Be Vulnerable: Public figures may feel they cannot show vulnerability or have moments of weakness without facing judgment or criticism. This can be a significant emotional burden as it prevents them from truly relaxing and being themselves in public.
6. Constant Need to Reinvent and Stay Relevant
• Fear of Obsolescence: Fame is often fleeting. To stay relevant, individuals must constantly innovate, adapt, or reinvent themselves. This can mean pushing personal boundaries or compromising personal values for the sake of maintaining visibility.
• Chasing Trends: To keep up with the public's ever-changing tastes, famous individuals often feel the pressure to follow trends or make controversial choices. This can sometimes involve compromising their artistic integrity or personal principles just to stay on top.
• Fear of Losing Fame: Fame is often not permanent. The fear of being replaced by someone younger, more popular, or more innovative can create anxiety. Some individuals may become obsessed with keeping their status, leading to unhealthy behavior, and forcing them to make personal sacrifices to stay relevant.
7. Physical and Mental Health
• Physical Toll: Maintaining the appearance that fame often demands can be physically taxing. Celebrities may undergo extreme diets, exercise regimens, or cosmetic procedures to look a certain way. This can take a toll on their health and well-being.
• Addiction and Self-Destructive Behavior: The pressure of fame can drive some individuals to self-destructive behaviors, including substance abuse, eating disorders, or other forms of addiction, as a way to cope with the emotional toll that fame takes.
• Health Sacrifices: In some industries, such as entertainment, celebrities may sacrifice their health for the sake of their careers, staying up late, skipping meals, or overworking, all of which can have long-term physical consequences.
8. Public Image Management
• Always Managing Perceptions: Celebrities often have to carefully curate their public image, making sure they stay in the public's good graces. This can involve dealing with media narratives, fan expectations, and critics, which can feel like a constant balancing act.
• Pressure to Be Perfect: Fame often requires that an individual maintain a certain level of perfection—whether in their physical appearance, professional accomplishments, or personal life. The scrutiny can be relentless, and the consequences of slipping up can be severe.
9. Loss of Control Over Personal Narrative
• Media Manipulation: Famous individuals often lose control over their personal narrative as the media, fans, and public shape the story around them. The portrayal of their lives is often skewed, and the person may struggle to correct false narratives.
• Exploitation: Fame can also expose individuals to exploitation, whether it's through being taken advantage of by people in their inner circle, the media, or businesses eager to capitalize on their image.
________________________________________
In summary, the pursuit and maintenance of fame require significant sacrifices, especially in terms of privacy, relationships, and mental health. While fame can bring wealth, status, and influence, it often comes at the cost of personal freedom, happiness, and well-being. Many famous individuals face emotional and psychological challenges, including loneliness, identity loss, and the pressure to meet constant public expectations. These sacrifices can make the reality of fame much different from the idealized vision many have when they first pursue it.
As we all know .. and what the reason is that we’re all here, is that The Kingston Trio was far more than a musical group.
Shane knew this … and I think it could be said that he let the Trio’s songs do much of the heavy lifting for him.
As did the two other various guys in the group. Plus the other band members.
They took a lot of the pressure off him.
I asked ChatGPT: When you consider the many songs that the Kingston Trio recorded and performed in their shows, what can be said that this musical group stood for?
ChatGPT said:
The Kingston Trio, through their expansive catalog and performances, stood for several key ideas and themes that resonated broadly during their era:
1. Revival and Preservation of Folk Music Tradition
• They played a central role in popularizing and revitalizing traditional American folk songs, introducing older works to new generations.
2. Social Awareness and Commentary
• Many of their songs tackled themes related to social issues of their time, such as injustice, war, poverty, and civil rights—often conveyed subtly through storytelling.
3. Entertainment and Humor
• They balanced serious themes with a playful, humorous style. Their lively stage presence, witty banter, and comedic storytelling were fundamental aspects of their appeal.
4. Accessible Musicality and Harmony
• Known for their tight, harmonious vocals and acoustic arrangements, the Kingston Trio represented approachable and skillful musicianship, which encouraged audience participation and broad appeal.
5. Reflecting American Identity and Experience
• Their songs reflected diverse aspects of the American experience—from historical narratives and regional tales to contemporary issues—capturing and exploring the complexities of national identity.
6. Youthful Optimism and Idealism
• The Kingston Trio embodied the youthful spirit and optimism of their era, conveying a sense of hopefulness and idealism, even when addressing serious issues.
In essence, the Kingston Trio stood for an engaging, thoughtful, and inclusive folk music tradition that reflected America's complexities, joys, and struggles, reaching wide audiences through storytelling, humor, harmony, and social conscience.
2/2
You said:
go deeper
ChatGPT said:
Going deeper, the Kingston Trio stood as more than just entertainers—they represented a cultural bridge that connected past traditions with contemporary social consciousness. Here's a nuanced exploration of what they truly stood for:
1. Guardians of Folk Music Heritage
• The Kingston Trio weren’t merely performers—they saw themselves as custodians of American folk music. By reviving traditional ballads, sea shanties, and story songs like "Tom Dooley," "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" and "Greenback Dollar," they preserved and passed down rich cultural narratives that might otherwise have been lost.
• Their meticulous respect for lyrical authenticity and acoustic instrumentation established them as cultural historians who brought forgotten or neglected folk traditions back to popular awareness.
2. Socially Conscious Storytelling
• While not overtly political like some contemporaries (Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, or Bob Dylan), the Trio subtly but effectively tackled social issues through storytelling. Songs like "The Merry Minuet," which addressed global tensions with a darkly humorous touch, and "M.T.A.," a satirical protest against bureaucratic absurdity, reflected an underlying social consciousness.
• They cleverly balanced social critique with entertainment, making difficult messages palatable for mainstream audiences, thus broadening public engagement with important societal conversations.
3. Advocacy Through Humor and Satire
• Their use of humor and satire was intentional and strategic. By weaving comedy into their songs and performances, the Kingston Trio softened critical commentary, making their pointed critiques of societal shortcomings accessible and engaging rather than confrontational or alienating.
• Their humorous narratives created a safe, approachable space for discussing contentious or uncomfortable subjects.
4. Harmonious Unity and Cooperation
• Their signature vocal harmony wasn’t just musical—it was symbolic. The smooth blending of voices demonstrated the power of cooperation, unity, and shared vision, a metaphor for societal harmony during a turbulent era in American history (the Cold War, civil rights struggles, and cultural upheaval).
• This harmony resonated deeply during an era marked by social fragmentation, implicitly suggesting that collective unity could overcome divisions.
5. A Reflection of American Complexity
• Their repertoire captured America’s contradictions, its complexities, and the tension between idealism and harsh reality. Through diverse storytelling—songs of innocence, humor, tragedy, romance, protest, and nostalgia—they portrayed an America that was both hopeful and troubled.
• Their eclectic mix of historical ballads, contemporary social commentaries, romantic songs, and humorous tales mirrored the diversity of American experience, reinforcing a sense of shared cultural identity across generations and backgrounds.
6. Pioneers of Popularization and Cultural Integration
• Crucially, the Kingston Trio helped popularize folk music at a mass scale, paving the way for later folk revivalists and singer-songwriters in the 1960s and beyond (Joan Baez, Peter, Paul & Mary, Bob Dylan).
• By successfully blending traditional folk music with commercial appeal, they bridged the divide between grassroots authenticity and mainstream acceptance. Their widespread popularity introduced vast audiences to deeper issues reflected in traditional folk songs.
7. Influence on Cultural Dialogue
• Their performances were cultural events that sparked dialogue. By integrating commentary into entertainment, the Kingston Trio encouraged their audience to engage in societal issues thoughtfully. Their concerts became communal spaces for shared experience and reflection, not just mere entertainment venues.
________________________________________
In essence, the Kingston Trio stood for a deep cultural dialogue—through music—that preserved history, subtly challenged prevailing norms, encouraged communal unity, and reflected both the optimism and complexity of American society. Their lasting impact comes from their ability to harmoniously blend entertainment, humor, historical preservation, and social consciousness into a musical legacy that continues to resonate.