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Moses Lake and LS

Posted by sean on 10/20/2009, 10:58 am

2000-2009 is LS's years but before that is Moses lake's.

Moses Lake only had five coaches before Mr. Wise. Four of those five were very good. Just one coach between Seibel and Wise did badly.

I really don't think LS would have do well again if ooach Barnes leaves.

Moses Lake still could do well with other coaches who wrestled at moses lake.

Someone mentioned that Moses Lake had a lot of transfers but i don't agree with that. All i remember were two very good transfer, Winoa (spell?) and Villegas. Do you know who else?

Of course LS is very good mainly because of transfers. I wonder if they would be that good if they don't have that many transfers.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by Recrutig on 10/20/2009, 11:01 am, in reply to "Moses Lake and LS"

Do not ever be above recruting!! If you can get a better athlete then what you have move him in its really no big deal

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by ls on 10/20/2009, 8:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

Brent Barnes IS Lake Stevens wrestling but it is different at Moses Lake. Moses Lake wrestling is a culture that transcends the issue of who the coach is at any given time.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by Old Timer on 10/20/2009, 8:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

Excellent point. Lake Stevens is really a thumb of the Seattle-Everett area, whereas Moses Lake still has a small town feel--even though there is one big high school. Many kids who graduate from Moses Lake return or stay. You have guys like Seibel, Skeesick, Blessing, Dexter, and others from the old days all the way up to now who are still in the Moses Lake area. It is a culture cor sure, and I think Sedro-Woolley would be another xase in point.

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had to respond

Posted by Jim Nielsen on 10/20/2009, 9:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

being apart of the Moses Lake program and hearing some of the comments, I felt obligated to share.

First off the coach between Seibel and Wise was not a bad coach. To make that statement is unfair and is very misinformed. Coach Stanley is a good coach and is doing quite well in Redmond Oregon, But filling the big shoes of Seibel and not being accepted by the community were two big hurdles that Nathan and his family had in front of them. Having a great job open up closer to their family was better than dealing with being an outsider.

Secondly, all of the talk about recruiting and move ins and transfers is just that, talk. Lake Stevens' coaching makes those kids better and they have been the lead dogs the last ten years because they have great coaching. They work hard and their kids respond. I would have to say that everyone is shooting for them and until someone steps up and takes them on, they are and will be the top dog here in Washington.

We have a great history here in Moses Lake. I have been putting together some Moses Lake wrestling history the last several months and just today I spent a couple of hours with Lamoin Merkley (two time state champ ML and 3 time National Champ at CWU) and the more I learn about the history of Moses Lake, the more grateful I am to have been a wrestler here and now a coach in Moses Lake.
Our tradition gives us good motivation to work hard and to try to do our best each year. We have big shoes to fill here each year and it's a great challenge each year to go out and represent our school and community.

As far as my history project goes, if anyone has any comments they like to share with me about their Moses Lake impressions or a story about Moses Lake Wrestling, please email it to me. thanks. See you on the mat.

Jim Nielsen

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Re: had to respond

Posted by backwoodsboy on 10/20/2009, 9:44 pm, in reply to "had to respond"

I remember growing up hearing about the wrestling duals between Auburn and ML especially in '96. How Auburn stopped had a dual with ML on the way to Tri-State, and it was one of the most hostile environments to wrestle in. But that's what made it so great! Then in the dream dual finals it was Auburn and ML and this time Auburn won. Then for it to come down to the HWT. state finals to see who would win the state title...Those stories were like legends to us.....

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I lucked out ...

Posted by JHall on 10/21/2009, 5:33 pm, in reply to "Re: had to respond"

During my HS years I never had to wrestle a M.L. guy ... Pasco, Sunnyside, Cheney, Prosser etc ... yet never Moses Lake ... WHEW!!

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no, somebody from ML was lucky

Posted by Jim Nielsen on 10/21/2009, 6:10 pm, in reply to "I lucked out ... "

from what I understand, Moses Lake was the lucky one, you were a bad dude back in the day. From what I hear, you're still a bad dude.

jk

have a great day!

Big Jim

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Re: I lucked out ...

Posted by Big 9 on 10/22/2009, 10:49 pm, in reply to "I lucked out ... "

I wrestled in the big 9 so we I wrestled in Moses Lake a few times. I remember the first time we wrestled them at our place. (Wenatchee) I was so impressed by the fact they brought a radio station to announce the matches back to Moses hole. This was back in the 80's.

We did beat them in 89. I think it was the first time we had beaten them in a dual in like 3 decades.

The difference between having a one town high school in a rural community is that the entire town gets behind the teams. Wenatchee has a good football team this year and the entire town turns out for the game

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Re: had to respond

Posted by kf on 10/26/2009, 10:49 am, in reply to "had to respond"

moses lake in my opinion is the best....
we work day and night 24/7 365 and there is no bad coaches only students refusing to learn every one has some thing to teach us and its our choice as the wrestlers to use it or not. we have an out standing traidtion in our room and when we step in there its not about us its not about anything but the team what makes us better and what we do every day to be the best. its all about the trradition period.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by MacTruck on 10/22/2009, 10:01 pm, in reply to "Moses Lake and LS"

You wrote:

"Of course LS is very good mainly because of transfers. I wonder if they would be that good if they don't have that many transfers."

Your second sentence is dependent upon the truthfulness, and accuracy of the first sentence. Yet you provide no evidence, which can substantiate your conclusion. I have been involved with the team since 2001. I cannot recall LS having 2 transfers on the team at any given time. So, how can the main reason for their success, rest on the shoulders of 1 wrestler, or even 2, or 3? The argument is absurd.

Mikey Sewell won three state titles. In those 3 years, Inglemoor finished 17th, 27th and 20th. LS went 3rd, 1st and 2nd. I think Tony was the only big name transfer on those LS teams ('03 & '04).

There are two main groups of people, who are always busting LS's chops over recruiting. The first group are fairly new and have obtained their information by rumor or that supplied by equally uninformed people. Generally speaking, they are not mean, or trying to slam LS in a vicious sort of way. Then there are those who may have been around a long time, and are openly hostile to Brent and his team. They know just enough to make a case of circumstantial evidence and highly embellished reasons for establishing their conclusions. Some do it jokingly, while others are really our to discredit the team.

There are many people out there who are jealous of LS's success. Year-after-year, Brent brings another powerhouse team out. They excel in the classroom and on the mats. Seemingly, some people just do not think it is fair, to have so much success and yet not be made up of prima donnas and bad attitudes.

It blows my mind that LS wrestled Blair Academy in a dual. They had to beat Easton (PA) and High Point (NJ). Blair beat them handily, but they are the top program in the nation. (The state of NY put together an all-star team and wrestled Blair. Blair won by something ridiculous. If you look at the box score, LS was in most of their matches.

The bottomline, LS is a great program, is not dependent on transfers. They win by those things champions win by.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by TSewell on 10/24/2009, 7:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

At the end of Mike's 8th grade year I contacted the Lake Stevens coaches about the possibility of our family moving to the Lk Stevens area. I was thinking of retiring from coaching and since the Northshore School District doesn't allow 9th graders to compete at the high school level, it made sense.

The move was bad timing for us as a family though, Mike competed as a 9th grader at Canyon Park Jr High went on to Inglemoor and I continued to coach.

We were never recruited by Lk Stevens. We sought them out because of the area and their great program. Brent Barnes didn't contact us or try to talk to us when the move didn't work out. Lk Steven draws good kids because of their reputation and all the talk of recruiting wasn't the case with us.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by What about/ on 10/26/2009, 11:12 am, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

Whatever happened to Tom Pfeifer? I remember thinking that he would place 1st in State but he never did...is he wrestling in college anywhere?

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by cbn fan on 10/26/2009, 12:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

tom got hurt his senior year and was lucky to even wrestle post season. I have no doubt in my mind that he could have won if it wasnt for that misfortune. given that it could be anybodys day when it does come to the final show. Im pretty sure tom signed up for the national guard and is at bootcamp somewhere back east.. like oklahoma.. not sure if he still plans to continue with his wrestling career or not.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by BruceyB on 10/27/2009, 8:23 am, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

It's a ridiculous statement to say that LS does well due to transfers/move-ins. Brent Barnes is arguably the best coach in the state, due to the fact he is able to bring out the potential in his wrestlers. He allows them to peak, and perform their best many times when it counts, at state. Look at Heinzer, he lost to Raylin Lucey from Snohomish, and was pinned by Josh Martinez in the duals of 2007-2008, but he went on to win the state title, and then dominate in 2008-2009. The man just knows what to do in order to make his wrestlers great. It's a matter of when 1 or 2 move-ins/transfers happen, it makes the rich, richer. I personally don't care for the Lake Stevens program, because I'm really not a fan of dynasty's but I could never deny the great things Barnes has done for that program.

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Re: Moses Lake and LS

Posted by funny on 10/28/2009, 6:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Moses Lake and LS"

Pretty sure Inglemoor was VERY well known for recruiting through the IB program.
care to tell how many of your wrestlers really came from Woodinville and Bothell feeder schools?

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Transfers

Posted by jte on 10/27/2009, 9:38 pm, in reply to "Moses Lake and LS"

"Of course LS is very good mainly because of transfers. I wonder if they would be that good if they don't have that many transfers."

Now that is an interesting concept. Lets assume that LS receives more incoming transfers of quality wrestlers that the norm (a statement not yet established as fact). Does it make more sense to suppose that good and great wrestlers transfer to LS in order to make a mediocre program great, or is it more logical that all kinds of wrestlers are attracted to a program they believe will make them better?

My Sr. year of HS I transferred into to Washington state. I knew we were going to live on the Kitsap Peninsula and my parents allowed me to pick the school I wanted to go to / wrestle for. After interviewing several coaches, I chose to wrestle for Larry McGuire at South Kitsap and my parents moved to Port Orchard. It was a good choice, he turned a mediocre JV wrestler from Illinois into a state participant here.

Success breeds success. Wrestlers who want to get better seek out coaches who can help them do so. If LS was not already a great program, they would not attract any wrestlers.

jte

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Not recruiting but....

Posted by wrestler on 10/29/2009, 6:24 pm, in reply to "Transfers"

Recruiting athletes to come to a school is against WIAA policy. While many have said it, there is no evidence of LS coaches actually recruiting athletes. And, all things considered, I doubt they have ever recruited an athlete.

However, as we all know, some programs draw athletes due to their success and the opportunity for an athlete to excel with great teammates and coaching.

Is LS bad because their program is so good that it "recruits itself"? No. Should athletes be strictly forbidden from going to a school that affords them the opportunity for athletic success? Debatable, but I'd say no as well. And, WIAA kind of sets precedent in this when they allow athletes to go to a neighboring school if their school doesn't offer a particular sport. What's the difference between a school that doesn't offer a sport, and one who has a completely unqualified coach running a team that can't fill out a roster and doesn't go against any decent competition.

I've said before, and I'll say it again...you can't stop kids from moving around. But, with relative ease, you CAN stop the move-ins/transfers/recruits from counting towards a team's score in the post-season.

Once a "home district" is established, (technically, this is already part of WIAA policy), a kid can't move/transfer to another school without:

His/her post-season points not counting for their "new" team.

This allows kids the OPPORTUNITY to maximize their talents, yet preserves the integrity of the interscholastic team competition of individual sports.

The athlete gets to compete as an individual, yet team scoring isn't unfairly affected by kids moving to the "good" teams.

Teams like LS still get the advantage of having another great wrestler in the room, and they can essentially "take away" a post-season spot that might have gone to another team (if Johnny was still at his old school).

This could apply not just to wrestling, but all individual type sports (track, XC, golf, swimming, ect...

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by Old Timer on 10/29/2009, 6:42 pm, in reply to "Not recruiting but...."

Where would you draw the line on move-ins? The family of a wrestler moves into the Lake Stevens District and has a legal and legitimate residence. You are saying that wrestler's team points in post-season should not count? All move-ins? What if a family moves in from Miami Florida due to a job relocation and another family moves in from Tacoma because they want a better wrestling program? Both families have wrestlers. To be consistent you must either let both kids wrestle or neither. I am not talking about WIAA rules here, I am responding to the rationale of the last post, which seems to be that all move-ins across the board should not count for post season team points. If that is the correct meaning it is total nonsense. Why should a family of a wrestler not be able to move into an area, buy a home, pay taxes in that district, and not be able to avail themselves of the wrestling community as well as represent that community in post-season. You people are starting to sound like communists.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by WIAA on 10/29/2009, 7:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

If you physically move addresses the WIAA is going to allow you to compete.

If you move schools without moving addresses then you probably will not be able to compete in post season.

There is a wrestler at Enumclaw that was not allowed to wrestle in the post season last year because he moved schools without physically moving. He chose to miss a post season to change schools.

The issue is should the student that changes schools for athletic reasons be treated the same way as a kid whose family actually moves into a new school district. Families that physically move should be able to compete in athletics. Whether it is from Tacoma or Miami you should be able to compete. Sure you may have a few kids moving for athletic reasons that slip through. But how many people would actually move so their kid could attend a school for better athletics? I would assume that the number is miniscule as it is a very drastic change for only a few years of their kids life. I think most parents are more worried about their kids getting into a good college and getting a good career.

The tougher question is do you allow students to switch schools without physically moving in the same school district. Lets say you are in a district with 3 or 4 high schools and your school has a crappy team with a half dozen wrestlers and no one to drill with at practice. Do we let that kid chose one of the other high schools? Will that team ever get better if we do? Do we just want to have a handfull of wrestling teams in the state?

Letting a kid move for athletic reasons solely seems shortsighted. I would be interested in seeing the data on all athletes that transferred schools for better opportunities. Did they go to college? Did they transfer colleges when they didnt like their coach? But most importantly do they have the skills necessary to find gainful employment and support themselves.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by Old Timer on 10/29/2009, 7:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

Agreed. It just seemed to me that transfers and move-ins were being painted with a broad brush in the earlier post. I agree with your differentiation.

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Lets call it like it is...

Posted by Dave G on 10/29/2009, 8:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

Sure you may have a few kids moving for athletic reasons that slip through. But how many people would actually move so their kid could attend a school for better athletics?

Are you serious? People don't move for sports? I can name at least six families from just one club that moved SPECIFICALLY for high school wrestling and MOST of them would tell you that was the case, if you asked them. They had various issues that prompted them to move, and all did it legally. I don't have any problem with moving for sports but why do we pretend that people don't? They do, in ALL sports. Ask the dads up north and they don't mix words about it, they moved for wrestling. If we had moved to a local school district I could say it was to live on a lake, get away from gangs, get some fresh air (whatever), but the reality is the only reason I would have moved there was for wrestling. Now in hindsight, not moving was probably a financial mistake on my part. We could have moved over and bought/built a big house on the lake on the Southeast side, played with the boats and jet skis for a few years, wrestled for a great coach and then sold the house when my son graduated ('06) for a big profit, before the market collapsed, and move back over near Mill Creek to be close to my office. Oh well, I guess we missed out...I call 'em as I see 'em.

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To Dave:

Posted by MacTruck on 10/29/2009, 9:49 pm, in reply to "Lets call it like it is..."

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you kick around moving to S-W, or even LS? I would imagine it would be difficult to pack-up a professional office, and leave your long-time patients behind. You were also pretty tight with Sherm Iverson (Cascade coach), as I recall. Would there have been issues on a personal level?

Remember when the three families were all planning to be at Cascade together? It would have been one heck of a line-up in the lower weights.

103 - Kenny Kubec
112 - Kelly Kubec
119 - Jonny Gilbertson
130 - Tony Kubec
140 - Ross Lampers

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Re: To Dave:

Posted by Old Timer on 10/30/2009, 10:13 am, in reply to "To Dave:"

I can't help but think Johnny G. would have been even more studly if he had been banging away in the room with Kubec and Van Leuven every day. But as Dave said Mill Creek is a bit of a commute from lake Stevens.

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Re: To Dave:

Posted by Dave G on 10/30/2009, 12:03 pm, in reply to "To Dave:"

I would have liked to have him in the SW room where he would have been in there wrestling with his USA Everett teammates Lomsdalen, Decker and O'Neil. I would have liked for him to be in the Lake Stevens room where he would have slid in right between Kubec and VanLeuvan, two other USA Everett teammates. Jonny was the only one of that group that didn't move for wrestling.

So even though I would have liked those partners and coaching, there were many other family/work dynamics that precluded moving, the main one being we all liked everything else about where we were living and the schools and friends. So a long winded answer to your question was no, we never seriously considered moving for wrestling but I can see why people do.

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Re: Lets call it like it is...

Posted by WIAA on 10/29/2009, 11:01 pm, in reply to "Lets call it like it is..."

People that pack up their lives and move so their kid can play a sport are a very small minority.

We see it with gymnasts in the olympics. Where there family moves to be near one of the great coaches. Most people though think they are a little obsessed though. It seems like an awful lot of pressure to put on a kid. The entire family is uprooting so you can play a sport. Like I said I would be curious to see a study of the effects on those kids 20 years down the road.

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Re: Lets call it like it is...

Posted by BruceyB on 10/30/2009, 10:40 am, in reply to "Re: Lets call it like it is..."

Not always, if your child has been wrestling all his life, and he really wants to succeed in high school, has goals planned, and wants to succeed at the college level as well...then you would be moving for you CHILD'S interest at heart, instead of attempting to force success on the kid. I went to a completely non-wrestling school, and spent half my time coaching during high school, during my own practices. I would have been more than ecstatic if I could have gone to a hardcore wrestling school, and been able to get good workouts in the practice room, and wrestle under high quality coaches. Although it wasn't a complete bust, because many of my best friends still came through wrestling.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by wrestler on 10/31/2009, 1:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

I'm saying all kids should be allowed to compete...kids shouldn't be punished. But, The rule CAN'T be subjective...moves from Miami, Madagascar or Mill Creek...all the same.

Establish a set "cut-off" date for determining a student's "home district/school". I would think the first day of school of their 8th grade year. From that point, they are established in that district. If they move, they still get to practice, compete, and hopefully earn their medal at state.

However, their team points don't count for the school they moved in to. You could even set it up as a "probationary period". Student moved from district A to dist B...a 1 or 2 season period when their team points don't count, then after that they are without the team points restriction.

The family maintains all its rights to move and choose a district, school, etc...with NO consequences. The family loses nothing, the individual wrestler loses nothing. AND, the school LOSES nothing, because they wouldn't have had those EXTRA team points if not for the student transfering in. In fact, the school gains because they get another tough wrestler in the room, and a guy to wrestle in regular season duals and tournaments. Plus, they get a guy to take a post-season spot away from another rival team.

I don't understand the downside to this, UNLESS YOUR TEAM IS THE BENIFICARY OF TRANSFERS.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by Downside on 10/31/2009, 3:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

The only downside to the individual is that the team may chose to send two wrestlers to the post season at their weight that can earn points for their team and leave the transfer at home.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by Old Timer on 10/31/2009, 3:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

Which is it--transfer or move in? You guys are using both terms interchangeably.

1. A transfer is a guy living in Anacortes attending Sedro-Woolley.
2. A move in is a kid whose family relocates geographically from Anacortes to Sedro Woolley.

Please clarify. Are you saying that any kid who moved into Sedro Woolley (for example) after the first day of school in grade eight should not be able to compete for team points in wrestling in high school? All four years? Wouldn't matter where they moved in from? Be more specific.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by wrestler on 10/31/2009, 5:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

My proposed rule would apply to BOTH..as both throw off the competitive balance and give certain programs an unfair advantage.

Transfers are already ILLEGAL according to WIAA regulations...see Chief Sealth, Tony Wroten, Auburn Riverside Girls BB, etc...etc...

Move-ins are what I'm talking about. The current, STUPID WIAA rule is that if someone moves for athletic reasons (LS offers a better opportunity for their wrestler to succeed), they can't participate. But, if they move for non-athletic reasons (wanted a different neighborhood, LS has a FANTASTIC drama club, or any other reason on earth) they can participate. Problem being, there is no way to know (read: prove) why someone moves.

So, it is pretty much a gigantic loophole for kids to move to any program they choose. The only obstacle is $$$, as it takes money to actually move the family. SO, the rich kids can move to the good program, while others can't...another issue, but a SECOND valid problem with the current system.

The primary issue is that it allows kids to GO to a different, better program. Great for the kid, but all it does is make the good programs more dominant and leads to a greater competitive imbalance. Am I the only one SICK of seeing 71-6 dual meet scores?

And, as I said... the specifics of the rule are certainly up for debate (such as when to set a home school and how long the points exemption would last). Doesn't have to be all 4 years of HS...

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by wrestler on 10/31/2009, 5:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

A possible problem, but VERY unlikely. Most coaches have the integrity not to do that. Challenges in wrestling make varsity pecking order pretty clear. And, how many teams have 3 guys at one weight that are not only equally competitive, but equally competitive at a high level that would make a significant difference in post-season tournaments.

In case you haven't checked, most district tournaents are run-aways...most coaches aren't that concerned with regionals...most teams aren't 3-deep with state-placer quality wrestlers. I'm sure someone will mention LS's 103 pounders, but...

And, in the worst case, IF it happens, it is the wrestler who CHOOSE to move that would come up short in the deal...

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by history man on 10/31/2009, 4:17 pm, in reply to "Not recruiting but...."

we went through this issue a few years ago. the rule would have to be:
"you are ineligible to compete for a school unless you live in the same house your grandparents did, and it still feeds to the same school".
the exception would be for schools like queen anne, glacier (south seattle) or marquette (yakima).

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by wrestler on 10/31/2009, 5:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

Just READ what I wrote...you set a uniform cut-off date. Of course lots of people move around these days. But, it's quite intersting how many of those are families with great athletes, and how many of THOSE families happen to move to districts that happen to excel in the exact sport their kid excels at.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by reshreshing on 10/31/2009, 7:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

It's refreshing to see your candid take on the issue. Makes for good reading.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by dave on 11/8/2009, 9:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

this happens every yr. in football and basketball, why should wrestling be dif.....recruit a better basketball, football or wrestling coach!....starting to get like college huh....sad but true.......enumclaw wrestling might be the best thing for file!!! he has the toughness but needs some discipline, class and pinache....reichert is the man for that.....and the kid will be tough to deal with for sure.

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Re: Not recruiting but....

Posted by runner on 11/8/2009, 11:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Not recruiting but...."

You mentioned the "recruiting" in other sports and I was wondering about cross-country running. Only 3 schools, all from Spokane, have won the 4A state title for the past 22 years. Do they move the runners in to Ferris, Mead and University or is there something in the water????

Arch Bishop Murphy does that for football but they are a private school and tuition driven. Recruiting students at private schools is a full time job if they want to stay open. When Ennis was at Cascade and they were routinely top 4 at state, did they have a lot of kids moving in to the district? I would think he had to be a big draw there, just like he was at ABM.

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