Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 9HZ 2010 - Top end rattle #
Posted by Alex Wright on July 10, 2015, 7:50 am
Year of Manufacture *: 2010 ( Optional ) Engine Code or CC: 9hz
Hi,
This car has approx 48,000 miles on the clock. It has had three services so far. One at 12,000 miles the second at 28,000 miles and the third at 42,000 miles. The first two services were done by a main Citroen dealer and the last service by myself.
The car was brought to me with top end engine rattle and low power issue. Also "low oil pressure" was intermittently being displayed
The oil level was checked and found to be ok. The oil filter was then checked and found to be partially blocked with crystallized carbon. An inspection of the turbo shaft revealed excessive play. Removing the sump showed the oil stainer was also blocked with crystallized carbon. The oil feed pipe to the turbo had the modifed banjo bolt fitted(removable gauuze inside). This didnt show any real carbon deposits.
With a new oil filter fitted oil flow and pressure was checked and found to be in spec, aslo the top end rattle was cured.
Following on from this the turbo was replaced, inlet oil feed and return pipe, and oil strainer. All parts genuine. The oil cooler housing was checked for any depsoits and none were found, the plastic cam cover box was also taken off and again everything looked clean. The engine was flushed three times.
Number three injector was suffering blow by. The copper washer and cam cover seal were replaced. Quite confident I had done everthing correctly, the car ran with no issues. Apart from a chirping noise eminating from the drive end of the engine. Not wanting to return the car to the customer with a large bill and nosiy engine I investagated.
The casue was found to be the timing belt rubbing off the top cover. The belt was overhanging the camshaft pulley by about 2 - 3mm. The tensioner had excessive lateral play (which i,m thinking would cause the belt to run off) and the idler pulley was rough to turn. The fuel pump sprocket had some axial movement, but I dont believe this to be a concern. I informed the customer the car needed a t.belt kit. Bearing in mind the interval for chaninging these is 10 years or 140 miles under normal condtions and 112,500 or 10 years under ardous conditions. The customer was quite understandably shocked and scepitical about it.
It was at this point she decieded to return the car to the main dealer who had she had bought it from. The car was 18 months out of warranty, but she was quite determined to confront them.
They put the turbo failure down to poor servicing oil quaility on my part (5w/30 fully synthetic low ash oil was used). The car was only serviced by me fo the first time 6000 miles ago. They had also told her two of their mechanics had checked the timing belt and its "perfect", off you go.
At this point i,m feeling pretty frustrated and my confidence has been knocked. Anything the dealer says is gosspil. There professionals of the utmost standard, and i,m just a lying, incompetent, grease monkey.
My thoughts on the premature turbo failure are the previous overstrecthed service intervals. Service interval is 10k under ardous and 12.5 under normal conditions. The injector blowby, and possilble clocking of the car. The car is a uk import and in my opionion the early timing belt fault is suspicous.
Now the customer has since rang me with concerns about the timing belt. I am having a job to convince her that it was serviced correctly by me and my diagnosis about the timing belt is correct Any thoughts welcome. The customer is a friend and probalby the only reason she is even giving me the time of day
Any thoughts welcome.
Regards
Alex Wright
Re: Citroen C4 Grand Picasso
Posted by Fiachra Purcell on July 10, 2015, 9:13 am, in reply to "Citroen C4 Grand Picasso" Fiachra Purcell
Hi Alex.
These engines have a reputation as can be found with a quick search on Google.
As for the timing belt it does sound suspicious for a car with 48K. I have replaced belts on these for a similar noise but generally higher mileage circa 80K.
Ask her to get the dealership to guarantee the timing belt is perfect in writing.
I hate working on these engines as they are a reputation breaker.
I refer all owners to API's web page (https://www.assuredperformance.ie/assets/images/Presentation-1.6-hdi-carbo-issues.pdf) and tell them the oil should be changes at 6k.
if the timing belt is rubbing cover can you not show your customer this the motor trade is the worst for slagging off other peoples work the dealers will do any thing to move blame to some one else these engines are known for problems our turbo supplier put us off doing these engines
I did take two photos of the timing belt covers and the witness marks on them. Should have taken more photos. I,m in the process of doing a report to show and hopefully fully assure the customer.
dont want this to appear as a sales pitch but look in the diesel section at the modified oil feed/filter pipes i do for these engines. numerous people on here have had them off me and i am sure they will agree they are worth every penny to give these turbo's a fighting chance.
Posted by Fiachra Purcell on July 10, 2015, 12:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C4 Grand Picasso" Fiachra Purcell
Hi Alex. I thought it was the water pump. When it comes to timing belts I tend to replace everything especially if there is a noise.
If you have the photos I would see if the owner is a member of AA to seek their opinion or another garage.
Unfortunately here in Ireland most (not all) main dealer technicians are only oil filter spinners. They either don't care or are under pressure from sales targets.
Unfortunately it is the world we live that a lot of garages blame the last mechanic to look at it. Personally I have a policy of saying nothing even if it is blatantly their fault.
Re: Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 9HZ 2010 - Top end rattle #
Just an update, customer was given full report and photos of timing belt issue. She decided to confront the main dealer with mentioned report. They decided that the timing belt does need replacing and they will do it free of charge. No apology or explanation given to customer as why two of their mechanics gave it the ok first time round.
Thanks for all of your replies and thanks sean for that link.
Re: Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 9HZ 2010 - Top end rattle #
Thanks for that info Dave, I read your recent post. Its a pity that kit Sean has doesnt come standard with every turbo bought for these engines. Maybe you should try pitching to the turbo companys Sean!
Re: Citroen C4 Grand Picasso 9HZ 2010 - Top end rattle #
Trust me Alex i have emailed quite a few turbo companies with the details as they all have nothing but headache with these warranty issues but to no avail. there is only one turbo company that buy these a lot off me. 1st one i designed and got made was for the same reason as you guys, blew up in 2000 miles even after all the flush/clean etc. like i say its not a cure but it give you a fighting chance.