Posted by Ray Kidder on 9/25/2009, 11:53 am, in reply to "Re: A Product of Ecumenical Councils"
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Searcher,
You mentioned Isaiah 43 & 44, but where in these chapters does it say anything about the Son of God or Jesus?
You also mentioned Revelation 1:8. Here it is (NKJV), with some added context:
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,
11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
This passage tells of Jesus, who testified that His God was His father, but how does it say that Jesus was Himself God?
You mentioned verses in Revelation 4 & 5. This is from Revelation 4&5 (NKJV):
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “ You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”
1 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?”
3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.
4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it.
5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
These verses tell of how Jesus was not the one who sat on the throne, but only the one who was able to open and read the scroll. Wasn't God the Father the one on the throne?
You mentioned Isaiah 48, but where is Jesus or the Son of God mentioned in this chapter?
This is from Matthew 11 (NKJV):
“Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
If Jesus is God, then wasn't he an example of someone who was born of women, yet greater than John the Baptist?
This is from John 14 (NKJV):
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
If Jesus was equal to the Father, then why did Jesus claim that God the father was greater then Himself?
I am not trying to promote Arianism, but I have found some scriptures that Supporters of Arianism have probably used to claim that Jesus is not God.
How do you explain the verses from Matthew 11 and John 14 that I have quoted?
Ray Kidder
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