Posted by Ray Kidder on 9/12/2009, 11:02 am, in reply to "Re: Galatians 6:1-5"
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Searcher,
I was thinking of giving you an elaborate response with Bible quotations that support the Anglican doctrines of baptismal regeneration and consubstantiation.
To shorten this sort of discussion, here are 3 questions for you:
Christians are instructed to speak the words of the Lord's prayer, as per this passage in Luke 11 (NKJV); right?:
1 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say:
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.”
1. Is the speaking of these words in church one of those religious rituals and works of the flesh that profiteth nothing?
2. If such speaking is profitless, why did Jesus instruct His disciples to say these words?
3. If such speaking is helpful, then why don't you claim that other religious rituals such as the service of Holy Communion, baptism with water, singing of Christian hymns, the sacramental of Holy Unction, and the speaking of other prayers are helpful?
_____
My statement that the flesh is preserved in baptism was something that recently crossed my mind, as something that is different from the removal of flesh from physical circumcision. Baptism involves the washing and cleaning of the flesh, so it symbolizes a sort of spiritual purification. This passage from Mark 9 (NKJV) comes to mind:
42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
44 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
46 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—
48 where
‘ Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
49 “For everyone will be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt.
50 Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another.”
In addition, this verse from Luke 3 (NKJV) comes to mind:
16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
17 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.”
These verses tell of how our flesh is supposed to be burned with fire and cut off from us if parts of our body cause us to sin. This passage from Luke tells of how baptism involves fire, and this was said by John the Baptist in the days when he was baptizing with water. OTOH, Mark 9:49-50 alludes to the idea of sacrificing the parts of our body (by losing them), but by also having them preserved with some kind of (spiritual?) salt. This reminds me of how baptism is a kind of temporary drowning for the destruction of these sinful parts of our body, but also the resurrection from this destruction, as salt is applied for such sacrifices for preservation.
This is from Ephesians 5 (NKJV):
28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.
We are not to hate or permanently destroy our flesh, but try to wash and preserve it; right?
Ray Kidder
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