Posted by Ray Kidder on 8/22/2009, 7:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Abraham's legacy"
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Searcher,
You have given me some reasons for your belief that the sifts of the Holy spirit ceased around the time of Acts 28, for you wrote:
"The gifts of the spirit were part of prophecy found in Joel for Israel. There are no gifts on offer today, but gifts WILL be resumed when Israel's clock once again resumes in the end times. The promise in Gal 3:8,9 started to be fulfilled during Acts, but Israel and all the blessings associated with her have been set aside. The time when the promise made to Abraham will be fulfilled is during the millennial kingdom."
This is from Galatians 3 (NKJV):
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
How is it that the faith of Christians today no longer applies to these verses?
I suppose you think the gifts of the Holy Spirit are associated with this passage from Acts 2 (NKJV):
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words.
15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—
23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;
24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.
It appears that this prophecy of Joel was fulfilled during the life of Jesus, around the time just before the second coming of Jesus, and the times in between (including the events of Acts 2).
Are you saying that because Joel wrote his prophecy to Jews with the understanding that it was intended for Jews to pay attention to, that it cannot also apply to gentile Christians?
I also do not recognise a new dispensation that started circa Acts 28. Yes, many Jews still rejected the gospel, but to this day, there are Jews sho convert to Christianity, while the Jewish religion is still assocated with the rejection of Jesus as their messiah. It seems to me that the Jewish belief that Jesus is a false messiah has existed ever since the Sanhedrin decided to have Jesus crucified. As long as there are Jews sho reject Jesus, this religion will still exist as it has contined to exist since circa 30 AD.
Also, in I Corinthians 12, we read of the usefulness of the gifts of the Holy spirit as follows (NKJV):
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
In verse 7, it says that these gifts are for the prophit of all. Why would these gifts be for the prophet of all (among the gentile Christians of Corinth) until circa Acts 28, and then all of the sudden they are turned off as being no longer needed?
Ray Kidder
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