Posted by Ray Kidder on 7/5/2009, 6:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Romans 7:9"
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Searcher,
Thanks for your response.
Most of what you wrote, I agree with. Here is one section that I have comments about, where you wrote:
"The day that Adam and Eve were disobedient and turned away from God, mankind was placed under the bondage of death. After Adam and Eve sinned, God gave them atonement for their sins. The skins He covered them with were from the first blood sacrifice for sin. They did still have the choice to now believe in Him and have the promise of eternal life, just as all men have."
Yes, when Adam and Eve were barred from the tree of life, they left a legacy of death for their descendants. I do not believe Adam ever had eternal life, but he was agiven a chance to obtain eternal life, but he lost this chance because of his disobediance.
You mentioned these verses from Genesis 3 (NIV):
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Although it may be true that the garments of skin were created through the death and loss of blood associated with animal sacrifices, animal sacrifices and blood are not specifically mentioned here. This does not mean that these verses have nothing to do with blood atonements for sin, but it is still a little speculative as to whether or not these verses have to do with the shedding of blood and animal atonements. I think a stronger case can be made that the clothing of skin has to do with the covering of their flesh to hide the shame of their nakedness before God. This was to end the alienation, which I associate with spiritual death. The skin also alludes to circumcision, because this involves the removal of skin. Adam's naming of his wife "Eve" as the mother of all living (even though she was not yet a mother) is associated with Christian faith and hope, of the sort that Abraham had when he believed God with respect to his future fatherhood. It should also be remembered that God's original intent was not for Adam and Eve and their descendants to remain in the garden of Eden. They were to populate the word and subdue it. For this reason, I believe God predestined them to sin and be expelled from the garden, so that they (and mankind) would be oriented to the challenges of overcoming sin.
Here is Romans 7:9 (NIV):
9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
In this passage, St. Paul did not claim he was born dead, for he says he was one alive. He did not physically die, so the only explanation I can see is that he died a non-physical death.
1. If he did not die a physical death, then what was he writing about here?
Similarly, in I John 3 (NIV) we read:
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
In verse 14, St. John wrote of passing from death to life, and how those who do not love remain in death.
2. Are these dead people all corpses, and these living people all of those who have not physically died?
3. Who are these people who have passed from death to life?
4. Who are those who remain in death?
5. Can a person be physically alive even though they have not passed from death to life?
Ray Kidder
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