Posted by Ray Kidder on 7/4/2009, 10:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Non-physical deaths"
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Searcher,
You wrote of God's commandment:
Gen 2:16,17
And the Lord commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
You also wrote of Gen 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
Yet you also wrote 'There is no "non-physical death' mentioned."
Are you claiming that Adam lost the opportunity for eternal life by transgressing the commandment which was ordained to life for Adam, but which Adam found to be unto death?
This loss of opportunity for eternal life is (I admit) likened to someone in a court room being found guilty of a serious crime such that he becomes a death row inmate. Being sentanced to death is an awful thing to be granted, but we are all like death-row inmates, since we will die someday (unless a miracle occurs).
If the penalty for Adam's transgression was his eventual death, then why didn't God say in Genesis 2:16,17 the following"
And the Lord commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die later."
I believe St. Paul's transgression was in the likeness of Adam's transgression, such that St. Paul wrote in Romans 7 (NKJV):
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
If the law was symbolized by the fruit of the tree of knolwedge of good and evil, then we can see how this fruit (the law) is holy, and the commandment that was given was still just and good even though sin taking occasion by the commandmnet produced death in St. Paul and Adam through that which is good!
If St. Paul's death of Romans 7:9 was not physical, what kind of death was it?
If Adam did not die until 930 years later, and there was no non-physicial death that occured on the day of his transgression, then why did God warn Adam of a death that would occur on the day (instead of just a plain death) that he ate of the forbidden fruit?
Couldn't Adam's shame and alienation from God be counted as a form of death that is not physical?
Again, what was St. Paul's death of Romans 7:9?
Ray Kidder
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