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Re: breeding red and white ones

Posted by JR on 2/4/2009, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Re: breeding red and white ones"
162.111.195.34

Hi Guys, I think we have to remember that man improved the colors and made the combinations through selective breeding. But man had NO control over what came first. That was a result of spontaneous genetic mutation. I agree that culturally, the appearance of a red carp suited the cultural bias and cultural preferences of the people - but that was a lucky coincidence. It is well documented that the first mutations that the Yamakoshi clan concentrated on was the red carp sport found among asagi magoi. And leucistic forms are reported in wild stock from China to Japan, as are the true albino form. So this was the raw color palette that the farmers first toyed with. When researching these things you are likely to find what I found- that even people who should be in the know ( three generation breeders) have a tunnel vision and a preconceived notion of the big picture. The only way for the researcher to overcome this local bias is to collect 'many' memories of history and compare them, one to another - or- match corresponding truths and apply them to the big picture ( and sometimes the mass opinion/memory will take on a different interpretation. For instance- you will find much corroborating opinion that bekko and asagi existed 'from the beginning'. These are not man made fish. These are creations of isolated base mutations created from float spawnings. There was a time before selective breeding when morphs and mutations were collected and concentrated in isolated bodies of water at temples and castles as a wild life novelty/ And this, by the way, is why come say the Chinese 'invented' koi. They did not! But they may very well have had sports, morphs and mutations of common carp. They certainly had color mutations of other carps that lead to 'gold' fish. So the all white carp with black eyes and the dingy white/yellowish kigoi as well as the red morph are the base stock. The random, flock and even focused spawning of old produced the crude spotted varieties. Mans' only had in this was the 'selecting out' sports and morphs and housing them together in numbers for their amusement. The resulting spawns started the ball rolling. So the first man made - or, better, man improved variety is the bright red benigoi. The introduction of the white spreading gene and the general use of the all white leucistic black eyed sport represents the second step. At this phase of things, Ray J may be absolutely right in that cultural tastes and significance came together to make the look we know today as a distinctly Japanese work of living art with great historical ties. - JR

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