Posted by Author Unknown, et al on 1/8/2002, 10:24 am

Chapel Apocalypse Class File #31 Posted by Author Unknown on 12/23/2001, 11:59 am I am going to suggest the possibility that the chronology of end-time events as spelled out in file #31 of the Apocalypse class held at the Chapel Bible College is biblically unsound: With the old method of reasoning as found in File #31; one must shoe-horn a number of clear bible verses to make them fit. Like 1st Corinthians 15:52 where the last trumpet is clearly mentioned. And also in chapter 11 where it is written: 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on. 13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon” (Rev 11:12-14). Keep in mind, the First Woe in Revelation is clearly indicated by the verse: The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come” (Rev 9:12) The Second Woe in Revelation is clearly indicated with verse 14 in our main text: 14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon” (Rev 11:14). It is hard for me to understand how anyone could possibly miss the clear indications that these Woes occur during the time-frame in which Revelation’s Trumpets are sounding. Even File #31 contains this understanding! And, isn’t it also clear from our passages in Revelation’s 11th Chapter, verses 12 through 14, that the Two Witnesses ascend between the First and Second Woes? Yes, this is abundantly clear. However File #31 puts the ascension of the “Two Witnesses” at the time of Revelation’s 5th Seal. Regardless of how long the time is between the Fifth Seal and the Seventh—whether it is One year, or One minute, the Seventh Seal should come before the Fifth; not after it! You do the math—tell me how the Trumpets can sound before the angels receive them? ---------- Posted by Author Unknown on 12/23/2001, 12:06 pm , in reply to "Chapel Apocalypse Class File #31 " What I meant to say is the Seventh Seal should come after the Fifth. At this point the word nevermind comes to mind. Merry Christmas ---------- Has it been so long that we have forgot the arguments... Posted by Author Unknown on 12/25/2001, 9:05 pm , in reply to "Re: Chapel Apocalypse Class File #31 " or do we just not care that much anymore? I remember back in the Chapel days it was taught that Revelation was laid out in such a manner that my last argument would fail to hold water. Did anyone among us go to the Apocalypse class? It's ok to disagree with Author Unknown. ---------- I think so... Posted by Steve B. on 12/26/2001, 1:00 pm , in reply to "Has it been so long that we have forgot the arguments..." ...or, more likely, interest in eschatology among ex-Chapelites has markedly declined since the Chapel years. I know that's been true for me. Somehow the issues of just getting along spiritually came to the forefront and pushed interest in eschatology pretty far into the background. Plus the fact that at the Chapel we all expected world government to be here in ten years or less, and that's plainly not happened. The whole end-time scheme we believed in got a little tarnished by several things. I'm not saying I've completely dropped my interest in it, but I know it's moved off my list of the top 25 issues in my life. Have others found the same thing to be true? ____________________ How Could I Have Been So Ignorant? Posted by Author Unknown on 1/6/2002, 2:09 pm For many years I have studied Revelation’s pages. I have prayed countless hours asking God for wisdom so that I could fulfill a calling on my life to bring a relevant end-time message to Jesus’ children. Now I realize that I have poured my heart out and spent my life’s years only to miss the mark and fail as a prudent teacher of God’s word. One thing that I thought I had, was a working understanding of Revelation’s Seven trumpet blasts. What a fool am I! I have just read a book entitled, (Apocalypse Delayed, Penton, UTP, 1997). This book has a slant on Revelation that I never even dreamed of. On page 59 it reads, “Between 1922 and 1928 the Watch Tower Society held a series of conventions which Jehovah’s Witnesses today believe were the seven angelic trumpet blasts.” Where was I mistaken? I was looking to the future for the fulfillment of Revelation’s prophecies. Now maybe with the help of the Watch Tower I can find understanding. Apparently, the whole sum of Revelations pages culminating in the final trumpet blast of the Seventh Angel was fulfilled in Detroit Michigan in 1928 as Judge Rutherford proclaimed the message, ‘Declaration against Satan and for Jehovah.’ Look out people, Armageddon may very well destroy all those who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses in 1975. Get the message out people! PS. This is the best book on the history of the JWs that I have read. ---------- Posted by Dave Kenady on 1/6/2002, 2:44 pm , in reply to "How Could I Have Been So Ignorant" It figures that the trumpets would have sounded from Detroit. Cadillacs have the best. ---------- And smog.... Posted by Luis on 1/6/2002, 5:33 pm , in reply to "Re: How Could I Have Been So Ignorant" Revelation 9:2: ...Smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke.... ---------- If You Hear A Knock At Your Door... Posted by Author Unknown on 1/7/2002, 9:34 am , in reply to "How Could I Have Been So Ignorant" “Since the time of Ussher intensive study has been carried out. In this twentieth century an independent study has been carried on that does not blindly follow some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, and the published time table resulting from this independent study gives the date of man’s creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man’s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E.” (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, President Frederick Franz, Watch Tower publication, 1966). “Looking back to 1871, we see that many of our company were what are known as Second Adventists, and the light they held briefly stated, was that there would be a second advent of Jesus—that he would come to bless and immortalize the saints, to judge the world and to burn up the world and all the wicked. This, they claimed would occur in 1873, because the 6,000 years from the creation of Adam were complete then. Well 1873 came, the end of 6,000 years, and yet no burning of the world; but prophecies were found which pointed positively to 1874 as the time when Jesus was due to be present… The autumn of 1874 anxiously expected, finally came, but the earth rolled on as ever; "all things continued as they were from the beginning of creation." All their hearts were sad; they said, surely we have been in error—but where? Surely it is clearly taught that Jesus will come again; perhaps our calculation of time is at fault. Carefully they examined the chronology but it seemed faultless and positively declared that the 6,000 years ended in 1873. Then the prophetic arguments were carefully re-examined: Was an error found? No, they stood the test of all investigation…” (February 1881 Zion's Watch Tower article, Cast Not Away Therefore Your Confidence). In the 1920s, The Watch Tower Society under Rutherford penned the following statements: “The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the ‘time of the end’ began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874”(Watch Tower March 1st 1922). Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus is present and has been since 1874.”(Watch Tower January 1st 1924. Look at the word usage in these passages, “indisputable facts,” “not the slightest room for doubt.” These strong statements allegedly nailed down the Societies foundational teaching that in 1874 Christ’s earthly presence began. Earlier—in Russell’s day—the terms, “unchallenged and incontrovertible,. ” were used in Watchtower publications to defend this understanding (The Time is at Hand 1889, 1915 edition page 236). As soon as I find a way to harmonize these Watch Tower statements I may become a Jehovah’s Witness. Next time you hear a knock at the door it may be I explaining to you why Watch Tower publications are the sole tool on earth where a “truly consecrated child of God” can learn Truth.