Posted by JR on 1/6/2002, 12:00 pm

The rapture Posted by Ravi Sement on 12/14/2001, 2:54 pm , in reply to "The "Manchild Company"" JR: I’ll take your last question: I can give many scriptures that refer to the promise of Yahshua's return, but I haven't found any of our leaving. I can also find many scriptures that refer to resurrection, but so far, I haven't found one that mentions a "rapture". It’s found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The word “rapture” as a noun is not used in the New Testament text, but the verb form of the word is. It’s like some doctrines in which one form of the word is used in the biblical text to state that the thing happens, but the succinct form of the word that is used as a name of the doctrine is not, and because of that, some people say the doctrine isn’t biblical. For example, the word “millennium” is not found in the Scripture, but in Revelation 20:2,4 it does say the following: “He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.... I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.... They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years....” It talks about Christ reigning on earth for a thousand years. “Millennium” means a period of time of a thousand years. Therefore, the Scripture does directly speak of a millennium, it just doesn’t use that form of the word. In the case of the rapture, it uses the verb form of the word, but not the noun form. In most of our English translations, the Greek verb harpazo comes through as the two-word phrasal verb “caught up” (a few English translations say “caught away”). 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 (NIV): “For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.” (And the “dead in Christ” doesn’t mean the Lutherans, as used to be a little joke around Chapel.) I used to say to myself, back in Bible college days in the late seventies, that the translations COULD say, “we who are alive and remain will be raptured out together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air,” since the dictionary does list the word “rapture” as a verb, as well as a noun. There was a big doctrinal controversy over the subject of the rapture, whether there would be one or not, and its opponents used to always reiterate that the word “rapture” was not in the Bible. My idea of how to translate it was really hammering in one particular theological viewpoint, but the truth was, it COULD be translated that way, and it would be a correct translation of the Greek into English. I’ll let others who know the manchild doctrine better take care of your other two questions. Regards, Ravi --------- JR—Can't I Play Too? Posted by Author Unknown on 12/15/2001, 7:52 am , in reply to "The " So far, even after receiving the manuscript (Ride the Ark Through Armageddon a survival guide for mankind) apparently you still have not found enough solid scriptural proof for a pre tribulation Rapture of God’s faithful? So please explain to me the understanding of these Bible events: 1. The 144,000 as shown in Revelation's chapters 7 and 9 are clearly on the earth, yet in chapter 14 they are in front of the throne in heaven. They are called the first fruits. And this can be tied with a parallel scripture: “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him” (I Corinthians 15:22-23). Now if these first fruits are caught up to heaven before “when he comes” as the text implies, wouldn’t this be solid scriptural proof for a rapture? 2. In Revelation it is written, “Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while there enemies looked on” (Rev 11:12). The following verse speaks of an earthquake and a city collapsing etc. Showing this event happens right about the time of Revelation’s seventh Trumpet which is before Christ’s return as clearly depicted in the next two verses. Also these witnesses that, “went up to heaven in a cloud,” were described as golden lampstands. We find that golden lampstand represent churches in Revelation 1: 20. Wouldn’t this be enough proof for a rapture of the church before the second coming? 3. Also, when you came to visit me Brother, you sat with me at a table and expressed your view that, “the woman in Revelation's 12th chapter must be Satan’s Church because Christ’s church is one.” You based this on the scripture which reads, “There is one body”(Ephesians 4:4 which you read to me that night. Is this still your understanding: the understanding that the woman which has the male child in Revelation is Satan’s church? Please answer my questions in the same spirit in which I wrote them. Sincerely, Author Unknown