Posted by MG on 1/6/2002, 11:17 am

Posted by lanny on 11/29/2001, 10:06 am , in reply to "Re: My response" There has always been a distinction between believers. Consider the following groups: ---the crowd of Israelites ---the believers in Christ ---the 70 who were given power and sent out as His representatives ---the 12 ---Peter, James and John who among other things were on the mount of transfiguration ---John who laid on Jesus breast. They all had differing intimacy and relationship with Christ. Another era: ---The nation of Israel, God's people ---the 7000 who had not bowed their knee to Baal ---Obadiah, Ahab's minister who "feared the Lord greatly" ---the prophets who were hid by 50's in caves ---Elijah who prayed earnestly that it might not rain... Again these all had a differing relationship with God. We might note that Enoch was caught up...it seems to suggest that no one else was. Who was the man who lived the longest? Methuselah...I seem to remember that he died in the year of the flood. ??? if that is true might not his long life represent the longsuffering of God? Didn't his name mean, "judgment at my death?" I believe that we are in the end times. If it prolong I take it as the mercy of God, not willing that any should perish. We still have time to salt our world with truth and God's presence. Daniel 12:1-3"...time of distress such as never occurred...those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever." There is the manchild. How about the woman and the remnant of her seed? They are those that remain who didn't go in the rapture. "One was taken and the other left." It is not something to get in the flesh and strive for. It is not something to fear. We will go in the rapture by faith just as those in Hebrews 11. Those in Hebrews 11 not only had faith but "built an ark" etc. That is, they proved their faith with action. A walk of faith and response to God will take us to the rapture. lanny ---------- Posted by Josef Larsson on 11/29/2001, 12:36 pm , in reply to "My Thoughts on a Partial Rapture - Please Respond" My initial thoughts: You wrote: A partial rapture sounds good but, seriously, who is in and who is out and what is God's criteria if we are all equally righteous??? Righteousness is not a boolean value (either on or off). I believe that there is plenty of scriptural proof that there are levels of righteousness. What about Jesus saying "...if your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees..." Also, as Lanny mentioned, the Bible is full of people who are in different levels of intimacy with the Lord. Paul also writes that we will differ in glory like on star from another. Two criteria for the rapture that come to mind: 1. Those who are watching and waiting for him 2. Those who love not their lives unto the death (Rev 12) -Joe ---------- Posted by lanny on 11/29/2001, 8:56 am , in reply to "The ManChild Company" Jamie Hansen and I have been teaching on Wednesday nights at New Heart about the Sept 11 tragedy and Bible prophecy. Recently Jamie began a series on the rapture. I highly recommend it to any that would like a refresher course on the rapture. Jamie says he has been hearing from God and has a fresh take on things. Lanny ---------- Posted by lanny on 11/29/2001, 8:59 am , in reply to "The ManChild Company" I forgot to add... if anyone is interested contact me personally and I will mail you the tapes and you can publish your thoughts about it here. Lanny ---------- Posted by Tom Ashley Young on 11/29/2001, 1:42 pm , in reply to "Re: The ManChild Company" Yes, Lanny, please mail me the tapes, and I'll put my 2c in later on this board. Thank you; Tom Ashley Young 2217 E. 59th, #409 Tulsa, OK 74105 ---------- I Would Like Some Tapes As Well Posted by Richard E. on 12/1/2001, 10:44 am , in reply to "Re: The ManChild Company" Lanny, could you e-mail me and then I will e-mail you my address? ---------- Posted by Keith on 12/5/2001, 5:30 am , in reply to "Re: The ManChild Company" I would be interested. I thought I had your e-mail address but I don't. Can you provide it or e-mail me? Thanks ____________________ Partial Rapture - Levels of Righteousness or Intimacy? Posted by Richard E. on 12/1/2001, 10:40 am Below Lanny and Josef responded to some questions I had on a partial rapture. This post is picked up from those responses. Josef said that he believed there are levels of righteousness because Jesus said that, "except your righteousness exceed that of the Pharisees...." No disrepect intended Josef but I disagree. I believe that Jesus' statement means that there is precisely ONE level of righteousness acceptable by God and that it is either "on or off." Any level of righteousness except the righteousness of Christ imputed to us by faith is really no righteousness at all. It is this one acceptable level of righteousness that allows a brand new sinner saved by grace to enter the throne room of God with the same boldness as a saint of God who has been saved 70 years. Now I can see levels of intimacy with God. Lanny, in your view, does being in the rapture presuppose an absence of sin in the rapturee? Or can a relatively new convert go in the rapture? Maybe another way to ask this is if being intimate with God and having sin in your life are mutually exclusive. My observation is that they are not. I have seen Christians who are weak with regard to sin but seem to know God more intimately than those with, at least, more outwardly righteous lives. I guess that I am getting back to God's criteria to be ratured. Do you see what I am getting at? ---------- Posted by lanny on 12/3/2001, 10:21 am , in reply to "Partial Rapture - Levels of Righteousness or Intimacy?" I suppose. Intimacy is the key to me. A long deepening relationship will lead to a Christ-like nature and walk. It is a matter of the heart and comes by faith. I don't see outward righteousness as having much to do with it. This is Isaac not Ishmael. Ishmael is a work of the flesh which God did not choose. Outward righteousness is highly esteemed by men. It is just Ishmael. The real Isaac comes by faith and is the result of a miracle. The only righteousness that God will accept is a miraculous work of the spirit that HE performs inside of us. Much of the church today has their hopes pinned on Ishmael because Isaac has not been born. In looking at the natural, ie, our flesh (the deadness of Sarah's womb) many cannot even believe for an Isaac. But I tell you that God has an Isaac, a promised seed, that new man, Christ that will come forth in the lives of many believers and be every bit as much of a miracle as the birth of Isaac. It has NOTHING to do with how righteous you are. It is what you have become. Remember that before the miracle of God, things usually look pretty hopeless. God lets us produce the best Ishmael we can produce; that is, he lets us try to fulfill the plan of God. Then when all has failed and we are disallusioned and discouraged, He does what He has promised. The important thing is to HOLD ON to the promise and not quit. Remember also that God's promises seem to take forever to come to pass. It almost seems to late. That is God's doing so that when things happen there will be no confusion as to who gets the glory. This is the Biblical pattern over and over. Regards, lanny ---------- A Hearty Thank You Lanny! Posted by Richard E. on 12/3/2001, 4:48 pm , in reply to "Re: Partial Rapture - Levels of Righteousness or Intimacy?" Your response not only helped my understanding of the rapture subject but, perhaps more importantly, it was timely for me personally with regard to promises that God has made to me. I have been reaching the end of my rope (I think/hope/pray it is the end) on some promises. I guess that is a good thing. ---------- Dear brother Lanny: Posted by Gordy on 12/3/2001, 7:03 pm , in reply to "Re: Partial Rapture - Levels of Righteousness or Intimacy?" Rapture aside, at least for my comments in this post, I want to tell how much I appreciate your relentless appeals to holding on to the promises of God. I remember you being so matter of fact when teaching and it always blessed me. The Pauline Epistles in particular. I have no idea what you have been through but what I see and hear from you today is something akin to gravity. It is always there, constant. Holding on to the promises of God has proven somewhat elusive to many that were at the Chapel including myself at times. You just don't know how your appeals to hold on have inspired me, not to mention prompting intense personal evaluation numerous times. The naysayers and those that say Isaac doesn't exist and never will seem to hold the more solid position at times but those looking for the house that Yahweh will build through His people will be rewarded for their faith and perserverance in holding on to the promise(s). What will the nayayers say when Sarah's womb is empty after the birth of Isaac? Let me guess. Something like the "the birth was just hype and imaginary". Keep up the encouragement to the brethren. I for one really appreciate it. Gordy