Posted by Keith, et al on 12/28/2001, 10:36 am

Posted by Keith on 10/28/2001, 7:53 am I was reading Rev 18 the other night, which makes reference to Babylon. I've heard Christian ministers refer to Babylon as the U.S., as I read it, considering the fact that it is speaking of end times, it kind of makes sense that it could be referring to the U.S., based upon the descriptions. What are some of the other explanations that might fit Babylon? I only took the first half of Apocalypse Daniel. I was just curious if anyone has some extra time. ---------- Posted by Dave Kenady on 10/28/2001, 8:32 am , in reply to "Question to Lanny or others on the book of Revelation and Babylon" Rev 17:3-15 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 ¶ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 ¶ These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. The way I see it, Babylon is a spiritual city which includes the world empires throughout the ages -- sitting upon the beast (Satan) who has 7 heads -- the 7 world empires throughout history, 5 have fallen, one is and one is yet to come; drunk with the blood of the saints. This is a far greater picture than just the U.S. I see Babylon as a rival to the saints of God; false religion that persecutes the true saints that is intimately tied in with Satan's plan of the ages. ---------- some points Posted by lanny on 10/28/2001, 7:53 pm , in reply to "Re: Question to Lanny or others on the book of Revelation and Babylon" Some basic symbolism (typology): -a woman would represent a church or religion. Virtuous women would rep. the true church and the bride and wicked women would rep the false etc. ----Rebekkah, Ruth, Esther, Rachel etc vs. Jezebel... Women in the OT did not rep. nations. -"names of blasphemy" "drunk with blood of the saints..." This is more like the RCC and other religions that have persucuted Christians down through the ages. The USA has not persucuted Christians as yet. In fact, we enjoy many protections that are unique to our country. The Roman persecutions are credited with the deaths of approx. 2-6 million Christians. The RCC is credited with between 20-60 million martyrs. That is quite staggering. Religious persecution has always been more fierce than secular persecution. It was the Jews who hated Christ, not the Romans. -mountains rep. kingdoms. It would be far more congruous to make the USA one of the seven "mountains" on which the woman sits. That is, the woman will have a dominant influence and be supported by seven nations or kingdoms. Actually I do not see the USA (at this time) as being referred to at all. The USA has not fulfilled the vast description of wickedness that is mentioned here. Time will tell. The USA could have a prominent roll in the setting up of the world govt. and world church. The USA did bring about the league of nations that later became the UN. At this time I think it is a horrible falsehood and even a deception to teach that the USA is "Great Babylon." This "woman" is the false church down through the ages. She has had far more power in times past than today. She is not dead, however. She will again rise to vast power as the false church of the end time. Lanny ---------- Posted by Matt Geib on 10/29/2001, 8:59 am , in reply to "Question to Lanny or others on the book of Revelation and Babylon" I do not doubt that Babylon in the scriptures has typological meaning but it could also refer to the literal city as well. It is interesting to note at this time that Saddam Hussein has been busily rebuilding Babylon on the very site that it once stood (since 1979). Every September he throws a lavish "Babylon Festival" as well, & does such things as have ceremonies & dances trying to invoke the power of the goddess? Ishtar. I have heard that he has (Saddam) even fashioned a gold coin with both his & King Nebb (can't spell it) likeness on it. Matt -------- Posted by Keith on 10/29/2001, 11:41 am , in reply to "Re: Question to Lanny or others on the book of Revelation and Babylon" Thanks for the responses, I have four bookmarks in my Bible and I hadn't read Rev. for a while. I started up at 18, going back to 17 does paint the picture a little better. Some of what was brought comes back to me now. I was thinking of Hollywood and other negative aspects of the US that have been spread throughout the world. Over the years the lines get pushed a little farther and slowly but surely society has been changing for the worse (to the point of Columbine, homosexuals and the boyscouts etc, etc). That was why I was thinking maybe Babylon fit the US, but the explanations brought do make more sense on a broader basis. --------- Posted by Tom Ashley Young on 10/31/2001, 9:51 am , in reply to "Question to Lanny or others on the book of Revelation and Babylon" The Roman Catholic Church (more specifically), the office of the pope, fits the entire sequence of Rev. chapter 17 & 18 quite well (or, quite sick, depending on your frame of reference). If you need backup, feel free to email me. Link: http://www.infopost.com/ItemDescription.asp?navtyp=SRH&ItemI=79666 --------- RCC Posted by lanny on 11/6/2001, 10:59 pm , in reply to "Re: Question to Lanny or others on the book of Revelation and Babylon" The reformers noticed this and many taught that the pope was the anti-christ. This is true about Bible prophecy: There are many fulfillments to prophecies that fulfill a part or even 90% of what was prophesied. However, the real fulfillment will fulfill 100% of the prophecy. For example, Rome itself fulfilled parts of the book of Revelation and there is a popular belief that teaches that the book of Rev. was and has been fulfilled. Lanny ---------- Posted by Tom Ashley Young on 11/7/2001, 5:16 am , in reply to "RCC" You didn't address specifics regarding which prophecies the pope didn't fulfill. Any? Link: http://www.infopost.com/ItemDescription.asp?navtyp=SRH&ItemI=79666 ---------- some short thots Posted by lanny on 11/8/2001, 12:21 pm , in reply to "Re: RCC" There have been many popes. My take on the anti-christ is that there will be one final anti-christ who will wield worldwide power and rule over the whole world. The popes I am sure had that ambition. They did not fulfill this and some fulfilled more than others. I see them as forerunners who had prince spirits yet did not have Satan himself indwelling them. Also the time sequence has not been fulfilled. lanny