Posted by DK on 12/27/2001, 10:14 pm

Wonderful revelations Posted by Dave Kenady on 11/4/2001, 5:14 pm , in reply to "My thoughts on this" Well, since I'm the one who used the term "the wonderful revelation" first, let me explain what I meant by it. I meant the term in the same as Steve, "revelation should always come by the Spirit through the Word-it is simply seeing for the first time, with God's help, the truth of something contained in the scriptures. The Word is the Spirit's instrument of truth." I experienced many wonderful revelations over the years. I used to not be able to wait until my next Bible college class. I took extensive notes, spent a lot of time after hours researching and taking more notes. I wrote people I knew about what I was learning. I'm quite sure I drove them crazy. But the Word had come alive to me and I was excited. This was a wonderful time in my life. I will never be the same. As a result, I think these things should be among those we elect to continue and propagate and drop the bad where we got off. "I'm not doubting the accuracy or sincerity of your observation, but it made me realize that I myself was never there for the "wonderful revelation." I was there because the Chapel taught the Word of God (meaning the Bible) more straight-forwardly than any other church I had yet encountered and was attempting to make it the center of daily life. I liked the practical aspects of its approach, such as making the time and space available for prayer before and after church services. I liked the availability of Bible college and the opportunity to sit in class every day studying the Word of God. I liked the high level of commitment of everybody there and daily life in a church community among people like that, seeking to live together in the Word and in the Spirit. I miss those things a lot." This is precisely what I meant also. In my mind it has been difficult to deal with a place where these wonderful things came from, but also a place where spiritual connections, broken homes and a destroyed church came from. Extreme opposites from the same place. The good things we had were SO good that they should be emulated. The Chapel should be held up as a good example. Yet, the bad things have made the Chapel also be held up as a bad example to be avoided at all costs. I think the matter of the Chapel's "wonderful revelations" comes pretty close to the core of my present view of what went wrong there. Even at the time, there was a fairly clear distinction in my mind between biblical teaching and revelations from Don and others that were said to be supported by the Bible but were not explicitly found in it. I think the degree to which people allowed this distinction to become blurred in their minds was directly related to the degree they were hurt or confused by the Chapel. I keep wanting to argue with you Steve, but I must admit that I agree here. Those "middle-shelf" things are okay in their place -- things which are intriguing but questionable; things that may require more research, things that may prove to be wrong... or right. Connections are the chief thing that I had in mind. I claim that unless one were relying on some form of extra-scriptural revelation, one would never come up with something like them. Therefore, I think that they were clearly not from God. Agreed. ---------- Posted by a friend on 11/5/2001, 5:37 am , in reply to "Wonderful revelations" Dear Saints in the context "Wonderful Revelations I will pose a question regarding the Body of Christ as we see it defined in 1Cor 12 To what level is the body to be "Fitly joined together"? Is the Doctrine (Baby) of "Connections" thrown out with the bathwater? The Context of 1Cor 12 is vs1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant." Of course the rest of the chap go's on to explain spiritual gifts,and the unity of the believers in christ as ONE body. How does this oneness happen? vs 31 Cont the chap Saying "But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way." "The Way of Love" did the Cc corner the market on manifesting Godly, real, pure LOVE? 1Cor chap 13 is the blue print, and master plan God would use to make his body one and for it to function properly. Will fallen man mess it up? Yes! but if we "Work out our Salvation with fear and trembling", learning from our misstakes and teaching the next generation throuh our "GOOD" example we will see the scripture fulfilled. 1Cor 13:11-13 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child:But when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, love these three; but the greatest is love." Steve I agree the doct of "connections" as Don taught, is and was twisted scripture shoe horned to fit his concepts of how the body was to be joined together. However do we neglect the Scriptures, because fallen man messed it up? no, yet when unconditional love is expressed, in the body people will and do misstakes handling this love and the proper expression of it. The law was a shoolmaster leading us to Christ, going back to legalism, and a system of rules and regs to modify our behavior will not work, I don't presume to know "how" to accomplish this yet I can't go back to the dead letter... more thoughts later... A friend ---------- To Steve...Regarding "my Thoughts" Posted by Matt Geib on 11/5/2001, 8:25 am , in reply to "My thoughts on this" Steve, I appreciate your thoughts on these matters. I for one, these last several years have found myself questioning whether there is even such a thing as "Revelation" at all, to me a revelation infers something totally new that was never ever known before. We would (I hope) all agree that nothing new has been added to scripture therefore how can we say there are "New Revelations"? Do we know more or will we have more"revelation" than Paul had?......I think not! Oct.31 marked the 484th anniversary of Luther nailing his thesis on grace to the door of the Canterberry Hall.....was that a "revelation"(something never before seen)?.......again I would say no!.....Those truths had always been in the inspired scriptures, they were not new, at that time Bro. Luther"discovered" them. I would much prefer to use the word illumination rather than revelation. I for one, am truly tired of all the hype & excitement I've seen blow thru the Church of Jesus Christ year after year on this new revelation or new Christian fad.....anything from blowing demons into bags to spiritual mapping. Please understand....I am not trying to say there is not some scriptual validity for some of these things or that God does not honor & work thru some of these things, but to then go & try to say this is some new revelation or to try & build a major doctrine that we feel all Christians should follow....well I have a problem with that. Let me give you an example.....A couple of Sunday's ago I was leading worship at our church & God really began to energize & anoint me (I knew that day It was Really the Lord & not just my own emotions because I had been pretty sick & had almost stayed at home in bed & when I got on the platform I felt really great). As the song service moved along, I could sense that God was moving to give the people faith to pull down strongholds & barriers in their lives & I began to feel that God would do a tremendous, liberating work in their lives if they would just get out of their pews & do a Jericho March (not something we've ever done before, in fact I felt like maybe I was going a little too far!!, yet God kept impressing this on my heart at that time) So we stepped out & marched & it was as if all of heaven came down!! & there were many deliverances & much joy that day. Now some folks would want to start doing that every Sunday & even begin to make a "doctrine" out of that....Is that what we should do ?.....I think not, but we as mere mortals are prone to do those kind of things. As being one of the "Full Gospel" persuasion I see that we get into "programs" & "ruts" just like any other Christian group (sometimes even more so). I also remember one posting of yours Steve, some time ago when you addressed the "Latter Rain" movement of which we know Don came out of, I believe you had stated(if I have it correct)that ministers coming out of that movement believed they were to be the "new Prophets" of God to bring to the church new revelations never before revealed so the church could be ushered into the Last Days. I would greatly appreciate it if you could "speak" to that issue again & possibly repost those thoughts(I believe they were excellent). Matt ---------- Posted by Steve B. on 11/5/2001, 9:28 am , in reply to "To Steve...Regarding " Thanks, Matt. I do think along the lines you describe here, and in the past I've posted quite a number of things about the Latter Rain movement. Right off hand I can't remember which one it is you refer to, but I will search through my saved postings to see if I can find it. I'll try to re-post it tonight. Sincerely, Steve ---------- Posted by Dave Kenady on 11/5/2001, 6:29 pm , in reply to "To Steve...Regarding "my Thoughts"" "to me a revelation infers something totally new that was never ever known before. We would (I hope) all agree that nothing new has been added to scripture therefore how can we say there are 'New Revelations' " I'm wondering, how would you see the following verse? Are there things from the scriptures that haven't been revealed yet? Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.