Posted by SB on 12/15/2001, 7:51 pm

short answer Posted by lanny on 10/18/2001, 11:50 pm , in reply to "punishing with death, to be precise, and yes, I am still that blind" Israel was a theocracy. That is, God was supposed to head their gov't. Thus, their religious law was also civil law. Today we are a democracy. That is, people are supposed to rule our nation. Our religious laws are separate from our civil laws. That is, the church has no civil authority. Thus, you will not go to jail for breaking God's laws. In Israel you can "go to jail" for breaking God's laws. (or suffer some civil penalty) As far as capital punishment, every society must decide whether there are crimes that are so heinous that justice can only be served by putting the offender to death. It has nothing to do with "revenge." It is a requirement of gov'ts to mete out justice and "keep the peace" and provide public safety etc. The Old Testament was very rigid in the law being "an eye for an eye," etc. God made the laws and His list of capital crimes is based on His knowledge of justice. Several of those listed are powerful doors to Satan and will spread (just as they are today) and will threaten the survival of any society that tolerates them. Am I saying witches should be put to death? Of course not. Demonism should not be encouraged, however. Those speaking against it should not be persecuted, censored or arrested either. Just wait and see if some of that list does not receive some form of gov't protection! Our society is in real peril from within. When the number of disfunctional people reaches a large enough percentage society is simply unable to survive. How many people who are emotionally disturbed, pathological, neurotic, dependant, addicted, abused, unemployable, criminal, confined, jailed, compulsive, and etc. can we support before the burden becomes so great that society collapses from the weight of its own sin? One reason the public school system is in such trouble is that the percentage of uncontrollable and emotionally disturbed children has far exceeded their ability to help these children. Getting back to the issue: Witches- spread of demonism in Israel Homo- Perversion, threatens the family unit which is essential for society to survive, spreads, leads to "reprobate minds," idolaters- they were advocating it to others, an act of treason against Israel itself, for God was their greatest national asset; to offend God was the greatest of crimes adultery- protect the marriage, prevent terrible hurt and often the destruction of the family unit, great harm to children and consequently society and future generations (note our example!) Sabbath- typological, create a break from work and thus afford attention to family and spiritual things. God viewed these crimes as worthy of death. He created man and society. He knows what is important and HOW important. We do well to accept rather than just say, "Hath God said?" Is God right or are we smarter than He? If it doesn't make sense to us, are we the pinnacle of infallibility? Is it not rather presumptious for man to declare himself superior to God? Do we have to understand something for it to be true? Well, I DO UNDERSTAND these passages. And I affirm them and all of God's Word to be true. (even the part I don't understand) nuf said, Lanny ---------- Re: short answer Posted by Dave Kenady on 10/19/2001, 6:38 am , in reply to "short answer" "Hath God said?" Is God right or are we smarter than He? Good answer Lanny. Concerning what you asked here, I would only add that DZ, by his questions at the end, shows how his view of the Bible causes difficulty. He asked: To be more precise, I am not sure if 1) God did not say it, but the Jews and Israelites mistakenly believed that He had; 2) God did say it, but I don't understand why. So DZ is not even sure if God said it because in His mind, the scriptures are NOT the inerrant, inspired Word of God. He says there are errors in the Word. This is just another example where he must determine if this is an error or a divine truth. It makes the book useless in determining truth. ---------- further Posted by lanny on 10/19/2001, 2:01 pm , in reply to "Re: short answer" If one does not accept the Bible as the final authority in these matters, then one is worshipping, serving a god of his own imagination. This is simple idolatry. In the OT one cast precious metals into an image of his own creation and then "worshipped" it. Today men pick and choose what they want to believe out of the Bible and then form their own man-made theology and godhead. That is modern day idolatry. i.e. man made gods... It is either ALL correct and inspired or we are left to "every man doing what is right in his own eyes." That statement is repeated several times during one of the darkest times in Israel's history. If God didn't say it, inspire it, or breath it then who did? And who is to decide? This argument has been around for centuries. Is my understanding superior to countless Bible believing scholars who have affirmed the inspiration of the Bible ever since the 1st century? Any person who by his own admission is not sure, seldom happy and in general searching for answers to many questions would do well to ash-can his current beliefs FOR THEY ARE NOT WORKING!!!!! It is time to become a student and not a teacher. Need I say more? lanny ---------- till the time, if and when God talks to me personally Posted by dz on 10/19/2001, 8:00 pm , in reply to "further" if and when God talks to me personally, on the issues we are raising, on the Bible as a whole being God's word, I could comment more wisely. Until then, I seek God and wait. If you wish, forgive my being dense. DZ ---------- Fair enough Posted by Dave Kenady on 10/20/2001, 8:03 am , in reply to "till the time, if and when God talks to me personally" Fair enough DZ. That is probably the wisest reply you have had on the board. ---------- comment Posted by lanny on 10/20/2001, 10:24 am , in reply to "till the time, if and when God talks to me personally" God is speaking to you. If you want a personal word from Him you may never get it. I have talked to many people over the years who also are waiting for a word from God to settle a doctrinal issue. Seldom does God ever speak like that. Actually He was speaking to them through me. They couldn't discern it. The truth is being spoken today in many places around the world. God doesn't choose to speak directly when His voice and truth is being spoken by many Christians. I talked to a minister who said he prayed every day that God would show him the truth about a particular doctrine. I told him that his prayers were being answered by my coming to talk with him. He balked and was as stubborn as a mule. Jn 7:17 is the answer, "If any man WILL to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine..." That is, revelation of truth is bound up in the heart and not in the head. Remember that Jesus said that if one were to return from the dead they still would not believe. These are issues of the heart. "Having eyes they see not, ears yet they do not hear." What does that mean? The human mind is quite capable of believing that 2+2=3. Just talk to an evolutionist. All the argument and logic in the world will make no difference at all. Waiting for God to reveal what is truth may sound humble. It may also be the ultimate pride trip. Namaan was quite offended when the prophet sent a messenger with the word, "dip in Jordan..." He wanted the prophet himself to come... And so it is today. Don't wait to long while at the same time rejecting His messengers. I care for you. Lanny