Posted by Steve B., et al on 12/15/2001, 7:48 pm

Posted by Steve B. on 10/16/2001, 1:46 pm We have lately been dismayed that an interloper has appeared among us, preaching a perverted sexual ethic, yet strangely claiming to be Christian, and predicting that America (and the world) are going to become more and more Christian. Today I ran across an excellent article which shows, among other things, one of the reasons why he is wrong. Briefly, it shows how the desire to include a perverted sexual ethic in Christianity is precisely the thing that makes it impossible for a Christianity affected by that ethic to grow and spread. The article is from the Yahoo daily news site and is by one of the columnists whose writing regularly appears there: Tuesday October 16 11:20 AM EDT THE DEMOGRAPHIC BOMB By Maggie Gallagher Two interrelated mysteries: Why do so many Arab Muslims think Western civilization is about to collapse? And how could so many well-educated hijackers live among us for so long and not be seduced by our cherished American way of life? For example, according to Norman Podhoretz, from a textbook published by the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites) Ministry of Education: Western civilization "has begun to collapse to and to become a pile of rubble." "(T)he age of the American collapse has begun," chimes in a columnist in the Egyptian state-sponsored newspaper Al-Akhbar, two weeks before the Twin Towers attack. Here we are in the early 21st century, a military giant, the world's oldest democracy, with a powerhouse economy creating new miracles of opportunity and ingenuity, still attracting huge migrations from all countries and cultures, a society which (whatever its limitations, and we do have some) is deeply steeped in decency, kindness and openness. How could they know us so well and still hate us so? For that matter, how could Isanu Dyson, a fifth-generation American who (according to the New York Post) converted to Islam three years ago, say he wants to fight for the Taliban? Here is my best guess at honest self-examination: The Achilles' heel of AmerEuropean civilization is our sexual culture, which even to many Americans looks not only deeply destructive, but ugly. Fatherless children, fragmented families, the demotion of sex into a product -- these are the surface symptoms of an even deeper problem: a hollowing out of sexual meaning and purpose. "The U.S. might be an economic and military superpower, but Islam is a religious and manpower superpower -- we are 1 billion people," brags Dyson. If Western civilization does face collapse, it will not come from outside invaders -- they can sow terror but not destruction -- but from the baby bomb. In Western countries people have for two generations stopped caring enough about having children to reproduce our population. Historian Paul Johnson writes about his vision of a long-term clash between Islam and the casually mentioned demographic bomb: "Should present trends continue, both these traditionally Catholic countries (Spain and Italy) will become majority Moslem during the 21st century." Not just because of migration, but because the native birth rates have entered a sudden, dramatic, sustained collapse. "The result of a crisis in ... family lifestyles," writes Russian demographer Anatoly I. Antonov in a recent issue of The Howard Center's The Family in America, "depopulation now threatens 20 economically developed countries around the world." At the heart of this collapse (in my opinion) is an idea, still contested, but gaining vast ground. The New York Times Sunday magazine devoted a whole issue to variations of it. It happened to be best expressed by a gay couple (but certainly it is not confined to homosexuals): "From time to time we have had affairs with other people, or moments of sexual release, but they were recreational," explained Steve. "It is only sex; it has no deep-seated meaning," agreed Chuck. Sex has no deep-seated meaning, no public purpose beyond providing an enjoyable set of internal physical or emotional sensations. Sex is a consumer good. People who believe this end up having unstable marriages, fragmented families or no families at all. For hundreds of years, traditional Islam has failed to produce a society that is attractive: regimes of secular corruption alternate with regimes of religious repression. But Islam remains a successful civilization because it fulfills the two minimum functions any culture must: It channels intense social energy of individuals into the two great sacrifices of self: war and babies. The children in Islamic societies suffer, and the women even more. But though individuals suffer, the family system itself works. The society perpetuates itself. It even finds new adherents in our country, primarily among those who have suffered most deeply from our current sexual disorder, African-Americans. The way forward is never the way back. Still, up until about 1970, Western civilization combined democracy, freedom, capitalism and neighborliness with a functioning family system. Who can now say the same? [End of article] Sincerely, Steve Born email: srborn@seanet.com Home page: http://www.seanet.com/~srborn/ ---------- Posted by Matt Geib on 10/16/2001, 2:16 pm , in reply to "The Demographic Bomb" Hello Steve, Thanks for the great"eye-opening" article! Matt ---------- Are Greek Orthodox Christian? Prosyletizing is a criminal offense Posted by dz on 10/17/2001, 10:34 am http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/irf/irf_rpt/1999/irf_greece99.html http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_euro.htm http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/freedomalert/HRWF_Greece/000215Greece.htm ---------- Prosyletizing is a criminal offense in the OT! Posted by Anthony W. Savini on 10/18/2001, 12:27 pm , in reply to "Are Greek Orthodox Christian? Prosyletizing is a criminal offense" I'm sure I'm going to be corrected but I'm teachable. In the OT God repeatedly admonished the Israelites to not molest the "Alien" but he also clearly said that within the borders of Israel no other Gods were to be worshipped. The "alien" was even welcome to attend some of the feasts (IMIC). I don't know if Prosyletizing was a concept at that time. The word is based on a greek word. If I remember the meanig in greek is "to hear". When every pagan city had their own patron God(dess) and every culture had it's own pantheon the idea of evangelism outside of the national boundaries was probably not practicable. The first example of evangelism (deliberate attempt to convert a population outside of Israel's boundaries) was probably Jonah. ---------- Are you serious???? Posted by Dave Kenady on 10/18/2001, 6:29 pm , in reply to "OT evangelism" I don't really understand why that would have been right (i.e. The OT did forbid and punish witchcraft and those advocating worship of other gods), but suffice it to say, today, that is not God's economy. 1)Are you seriously saying that you can't understand why it was right in the OT that God punished worshipping other gods and the practice of witchcraft?