Posted by JR on 11/6/2001, 1:33 pm

answer Posted by lanny on 10/10/2001, 8:43 pm , in reply to "qwestion for Lanny; will USA and world repentance avert the calamities you predict?" I think that the end time evil of Revelation may be put off if revival(s) keep the anti-christ at bay. That is, the climate is not right for his absolute takeover. The future is partly in our hands as we fulfill our calling in God or just backslide and quit. Christians are the line of defense between this world and Satan, who wants to rule and take over. If Christians fail to make a difference, than Satan's plan is accelerated. This is no big revelation but rather the obvious practical outcome of the battle between good and evil. I hardly think the USA or the world will become more and more Christian. It MAY happen for awhile but history teaches otherwise. Nations have risen and fallen and the Gospel has been hailed and then later persecuted even in the same country in the same decade. The battle ebbs and flows. The future is in our hands. lanny ---------- Posted by Keith on 10/9/2001, 7:30 pm , in reply to "USA" I thought what you brought overall was real good. Except concerning the Washington Monument, so what if its origins trace back to what you described? IÂ’ve never had that in mind probably almost nobody has that in mind. That kind of thing makes many think of Christians as off the wall, there is absolutely no consequence in it, people know that, itÂ’s an inanimate object. If we came to a place of worshiping it with knowledge of what you described as they probably did back in Egypt that might be another matter. I do understand what you were getting at and how our society has been consumed with sex but in my mind the Washington monument plays no part in that. There is plenty of straightforward day to day things that turn people from the Lord or keep them directed away from Him which should be the focus of our attention. IÂ’ve come to the conclusion that some of that conspiracy stuff just isnÂ’t there and it is a distraction from more important issues. Not that the devil hasn't been working in the background and not that he hasn't left some signs but in my opinion we don't have to play the music backwards there's enough when we play it forward. Just my two cents, my perspective. ---------- Posted by lanny on 10/10/2001, 8:52 pm , in reply to "Re: USA" I agree. It is not a big deal. I merely mentioned it to show that Demonic symbols are a part of our national heritage. While individually you, for example, may not bow down but it is still there in our nations capital. What symbolic meaning does it convey? Symbolically how many visit that site every year. Does it allow Satan a spiritual door to the nation? How would God look at such a symbol? Remember God is BIG on symbolism. We call it typology. It is a national monument. Didn't the 2 towers in NY represent $ and power. I believe these kind of things preach a message. Lanny ---------- P.S. ... To D.Z. Posted by JR on 10/8/2001, 12:56 am , in reply to "All the world's a stage..." It was the American Government that put the Taliban in power. ---------- America not perfect, but used by God for freedom, like Cyrus and Constantine; God, govs and Saudis Posted by dz on 10/8/2001, 10:33 am , in reply to "P.S. ... To D.Z." >It was the American Government that put the >Taliban in power. Not true. However, even if it were, so what? Even if it were true, you would only have suggested--not proven--that the US had made a mistake. God anointed Saul as king, yet Saul sinned and rebelled and God rejected Saul. So? Did God make a mistake in choosing Saul? God blessed and chose Solomon, yet sin would later sin with idols. It seems that some contributors to this board write as if they wish to deny that God can and does use any particular government, after the Bible times. The Bible tells us that God gave instructions to Pharaoh through Joseph. Later, Pharaoh took in Jacob and his family and Jacob blessed Pharaoh. Even before being blessed by Jacob, Pharaoh and Egypt were blessed, not because they were perfect, but because they followed one instruction from Joseph. One! The USA is not perfect, but it does follow many instructions derived from the Bible. And, so, it is blessed far beyond many other countries! Pharaoh and Egypt, in order to be blessed, did not need to obey everything perfectly and Joseph did not even suggest to them anything like the Mosaic law. Christians naturally would agree that God anointed or blessed and approved the governments of Moses, Joshua and David. God even anointed and initially blessed the ministry of Saul! Solomon was also chosen and even blessed by God, even though he would sin with many wives and idolatry and God knew it beforehand. Cyrus was chosen and anointed and blessed by God even though he was not a Jew and did not know Yahweh as God. Jehu was chosen and anointed and blessed by God to smite the house of Ahab and to govern Israel, even though he would continue in some of the sins of Rehoboam. However, once the Bible writings stop being written, around 100 or 150AD, some modern Christians suddenly suppose that no human government could be favored by God over others. Apparently, unless there is a specific Bible verse for it, certain Christians today will absolutely refuse to believe that God could have or did bless particular governments, rather than others. For, in every human government, they see sins and flaws and faults. God, who from 1500BC to at least 500BC, chose, anointed and blessed certain flawed and sinful governments to accomplish his purposes, has, according to them, just stopped doing so. Perhaps, they would prefer something like the Roman Catholic governments of France in the 1200 and 1300s, which were committed to burning heretics? Except that, in their modern government as they wish for it, it should be they, rather than the Catholic church, who decides who is to be burned and who is to be spared? You remind me a little of James and John who wanted to burn a village of Samaritans for not receiving Jesus in hospitality. Jesus says, "You don't know what spirit you have," i.e. that of the devil, Luke 9:55. The various plagues and unnatural deaths and catastrophes which befall the Roman emperors and governors who persecuted the Christians are forgotten. The miraculous victories of Constantine over his enemies are also forgotten, because of various of Constantine's flaws. The death of Bloody Mary (English Queen, 1553-1558) is just in the normal course of events, and the foolishness that led to the exile and deposition of Mary Queen of Scots was another fluke, even though both events together gave us Protestant England and Scotland. The victories of George Washington over the British and God's protection and care for the Americans is forgotten. Robert E. Lee's lost battle plans in Maryland are forgotten. The weather at Dunkirk and at D-day is forgotten. The miracle at Midway is forgotten. General Patton praying for clear weather so that the US bombers could bomb the Germans and the clear weather that came is forgotten. Everything that God has done in the past, so far as governments go, blessing some--like the USA-- and cursing others--like Nazi Germany--since 100AD or since the time of Cyrus the Great, is forgotten, so that some can claim that God is in some way indifferent or neutral in the current conflict. America is flawed and I don't agree with all of the decisions America has made or makes. I surely don't agree with giving the Egyptian military US foreign aid, which we are doing, for Egypt is a country that oppresses Christians. I don't agree with any foreign aid to the Saudis, for they persecute and kill Christians. However, in the first place, from above, the USA did not install the Tabilan. The US did arm the mujahadeen. After the Soviet withdrawal in 1989, the mujahadeen fought among themselves. There was anarchy and civil war and finally the Taliban came to power in 1996. However, even if they had, it would be irrelevant to any other question. God Himself chose and armed Saul the king before David. DZ ---------- Posted by JR on 10/8/2001, 11:58 am , in reply to "America not perfect, but used by God for freedom, like Cyrus and Constantine; God, govs and Saudis" DZ, God chose Saul because Israel rejected HIM as their king. God sent Moses to judge Egypt because Pharoah forgot Joseph and began to enslave Israel. God annointed Joshua to fulfill his promise to Abraham. Now, as to the American government establishing the Taliban, this is a fact that the American government admits. They even gave the Taliban 132 million dollars THIS YEAR. Now as for all of that other stuff you wrote, I could care less of your opinion of me or my questions. Meanwhile, wave your flag while you watch your child pornography, and say I have a devil. I simply don't care.