Posted by GC on 11/1/2001, 12:17 pm

Posted by Keith on 10/7/2001, 3:42 pm , in reply to "Re: Finally...." Something my father-in-law said to my son (which was way beyond anything you've said) made me real mad, something like it's probably a good thing what the Germans did to the Jews. I know you probably don't feel that way but I always wonder why hate for Jews gets to such an extent, unless there is some underlying spiritual element. From my perspective from what I know of Israel the history, the people, I feel we should definitely be very supportive of Israel, such as we are with England. Perhaps you are more keen on the overall history, problems, instances where they are given unfair preferential treatment. I have made judgments based upon information I have primarily seen in the media and through people such as former prime minister Netanyahoo (sp?). The one thing that seems sure Israel has not instigated the problems they find themselves in. If terrorists drive a truck full of explosives into a group of people in England, would we stick up for England? I feel in the situation in question Israel was feeling it's hands tied more and more because of what we are doing in Afghanistan. I don't doubt that there was some behind the scenes diplomacy when that Russian airplane initially fell out of the sky telling Israel to take it easy and not start anything. When you jumped out there seemingly excitedly in response to Israels rebuke, it just made me wonder and hit me wrong. Maybe they do need rebuke in a lot of areas but I don't know if this was one of them. I don't consider them any better or worse than anyone but I have seen what I think is injustice and feel we should stick up for them. Sorry if I miss judged you but these are simply the opinions that have formed in me based upon many different factors. ---------- Posted by Gordy on 10/7/2001, 4:47 pm , in reply to "Re: Finally...." Keith: The statement you mentioned would have made me mad also. It is clearly racist. I know many Jews and work with them also. I see vast differences between them but when it comes to Israel they are unanimous in their views. They are willing to put their own country's best interests (U.S.) behind that of Israel's. That bothers me. Sometimes I feel they look at the U.S. as a host from which they suck their existence, protection and welfare for their "homeland" in Palestine. I believe the U.S. should do what is right regardless of those Jews that view this country as only a source for their sustenance. But again, it makes me angry at times. I also realize not all Jews are that way but as a nation I think the previous descriptions fit. I am not siding with the Palestinians actions but I can understand why they hate Israel so much. I think they are misguided but imagine if the U.N. came in and partitioned the U.S. and gave one of the partitions to someone we never have got along with. Whether or not the U.N. actions were correct or not is certainly a debateable subject. I have no hard opinion one way or the other. I support Israel's right to exist and be secure but I do not support them unnecesarily aggragvating the situation as they do. They have a lot of blood on their hands as do the Palestinians. For that matter, this country has more "innocent" blood on it's hands than both Israel and Palestinians combined if we were only to consider abortions. Our nation is not innocent and what we as Christians should do is a perplexing problem. Of course prayer is the obvious first choice. Since we live in a secularized nation we are affected by our leader's decisions whether they be for against the laws of Yahweh. Daniel faced very similar situations as we do therefore I look to that history for guidance and to help focus the underlying issues. I think we look very foolish to many people in the world that know how debauched this country has become when we point fingers and call others evil. Personally I think Bush made a blunder when he called this a war against "evil doers". He should have kept in the secular context and said it was a war against those who wish and/or do harm to this country. Nobody could argue with that as self preservation and protection is recognized as a right by the world community. Our attempts at relying on our righteousness or goodness versus their evil is unwise as we are called infidels by our enemies in Islam. Unfortunately they are right but not for the all the reasons they claim. I think we find ourselves in such a pickle because we have lost our national identity and the fear of Yahweh. It seems we just cannot extricate ourselves from trouble and now the trouble is on our own turf and probably will become much worse before it gets better, if it ever does. Our only hope long term is truly put our trust God and begin to live it in truth. Gordy