Posted by PM on 10/8/2001, 11:30 am

Speaking for myself... Posted by Phil on 9/20/2001, 1:26 pm , in reply to "on Phil, Steve B and national repentance" ...and not Steve Born, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, or Dave Wilkerson. You'll have to direct your questions of them to them if you want answers. We seem to agree that America has received considerable blessings at the hand of the Creator. Good. Does this constitute a valid argument for America's exemption from judgment? I don't think so, but you may if you wish. 'Bout the same thing the Israelites did in Jeremiah's day, as well as the great harlot of Revelation. How exactly do you think Yahweh sees abortion and this country's part in the millions that have been done? As I see it, this is as clear evidence of America's indifference to God as there is. What do you think the primary motive is for most who choose to murder their babies? I'd guess it comes from the same root as the patriotism revival we see: Protect our comfort, convenience, and lifestyles at all costs. In the light of the readily available choice for adoption, the only reasons for killing most unborn children are completely shallow, short sighted, and self-serving. If the judgment of God were truly regarded, people wouldn't accept the Supreme Court's rulings and the complacency of the rest of the government in the matter. I want no part on a team fighting "evil-doers" until/unless I'm sure I agree with how "evil-doers" are defined. (Why not just wage war on terrorists, by the way?) Only a fool would trust the judgment in such a matter of a government that sanctions the murder and murderers of babies. Then, I suppose the same would apply to individuals.... ---------- Gen 18:23; Gen 13:32 Posted by david zaitzeff on 9/20/2001, 2:12 pm , in reply to "Speaking for myself..." >How exactly do you think Yahweh sees abortion >and this country's part in the millions that >have been done? Gen 18:23; Gen 18:32. >As I see it, this is as clear evidence of >America's indifference to God as there is. Those sins are individual sins for which the nation as a nation is not responsible. You speak of America's indifference to God. By what standard? Perfection? Sure, we fail the standard of perfection. It is not that 100% of Americans are mature Christians. You seem to be saying that America must and should use force to stop abortions and should do nothing about the Taliban. Is that right? In addition to harboring bin Laden, the Taliban kill adults who become Christians! They say so explicitly and make no bones about it! Their own law prescribes death for people who convert, leave Islam and become Christian! If you really want to stop abortions, then, you personally pray earnestly for the salvation of your friends and neighbors and give away Christian tracts to everybody you meet! >I'd guess it comes from the same root as the patriotism revival we see: Protect our comfort, >convenience, and lifestyles at all costs. And because that freedom is a blessing to Christians, God will bless our system, Gen 12:3. >I want no part on a team fighting "evil-doers" until/unless I'm sure I agree with how "evil-doers" are defined. (Why not just wage war on >terrorists, by the way?) That's OK. You and other will pay your taxes and the US military will do its job. Dz ---------- Father, bless us for we have sinned Posted by Gordy on 9/20/2001, 8:30 pm , in reply to "Gen 18:23; Gen 13:32" David: In essence you are saying; "Father bless us for we have sinned". No? Gordy ---------- Posted by Phil on 9/21/2001, 7:28 am , in reply to "Gen 18:23; Gen 13:32" You seem to be saying that America must and should use force to stop abortions and should do nothing about the Taliban. Is that right? I neither said nor meant anything of the sort. I'm saying (as one who believes that nations and individuals ultimately stand or fall by Yahweh's power) that if we truly wish to fight evil (like terrorism), then we would do well to seek Yahweh's blessing. If we are truly against evil, we should be against all evil, not just that which threatens our peace and prosperity. To seek God's blessing while our backs are turned to Him is not a great way to gain His favor. If you really want to stop abortions, then, you personally pray earnestly for the salvation of your friends and neighbors and give away Christian tracts to everybody you meet! And otherwise please don't mention it???? You seem to be missing my whole point, Dave. I'm speaking from a staunchly pro-American, pro-Liberty viewpoint here. My interest, like most, is in the preservation of the same. Although I would love to stop abortion, it isn't so much for concern over the babies; its about the certain judgment this brings upon this country, my country, even though it may be delayed. I fully believe in the mercy and grace of the Father, but for this to be ultimately effective on our behalf, it must be received with humble repentance. I'm not seeing a whole lot of that these days, and that concerns me. You may attempt to twist my words into an anti-American and/or pro-terrorism stand, but that is not the truth. I just think the slaughter of more innocent babies EVERY DAY than were killed in the WTC, etc. attacks ought to top the list of terrorist threats needing to be dealt with. Failure to do so reveals the true spirit overtaking this land, and it has nothing to do with righteousness. We reject Yahweh and kill any who threaten our prosperity in any way without regard to guilt or innocence. Those who are guilty of innocent blood should and will be brought to justice, whether at the hand of nations or an angry Yahweh.