Posted by Chris, et al on 10/6/2001, 12:57 pm

Posted by Chris on 9/8/2001, 12:04 pm I've spent the better part of my lazy Saturday afternoon reading through the thread below started by Lurlee asking why God brought us to the chapel. I'm still not done, and wow, what a lot of food for thought. However, I'm not going to pull out the deepest or most profound thought for further discussion. Rather, Steve made a comment about when signing on as a member of the AG church he didn't have to sign something he didn't agree with (tongues, I believe). I've been attending a Baptist church and ministering there in song for a year now. I've not only become a regular fixture on Sunday mornings, but I have a role in ministry every Sunday as well. No one there has pushed the idea of membership on me, nor to they preach about it either, but I feel funny. I feel like I am on the outside. When important matters are presented, you can't vote unless you're a member. Other than that, everyone is open and welcoming. I guess I feel like it's not important and that you don't have to be a member to have a significant part to play in the body. After all, we didn't have an official membership at the Chapel. Maybe I'm going by that. For those of you involved in a consistent church life, how do you feel specifically about membership in your church? What prompted you to become a member, or what has kept you from becoming a member? ---------- Posted by Lita on 9/8/2001, 3:18 pm , in reply to "church membership" well. I to begin with , was like you at CC. we never did formal membership. So, down here it was an odd concept for me. What happened with me was I had been attending Vineyards for about 9 years. The one in Gilbert when we lived over there...they didn't do formal membership. But that was where I finally found 'home' for worship being the foremost in their thrust for ministry, and a 'healing'...more emotional. The Lord used me there for the gift of prophecy a few times, and lives were touched when I yielded to that. We moved to Oregon for a year, and were part of a small church planting, but got moved back to Az so left that. Hookd up over here on the west side of Phoenix eventually to North Phoenix Vineyard. There had been several occasions where I wanted to step out and minister, but this church was bigger, and no one knew me, I wanted to honor the leadership so, after each of these episodes of sensing God's heart for the people, i asked what the policy was. As a rule, they liked people to exercise any gifts of utterance what have you, first in home groups, and then go from there, developing a solid reputation as not being a fly by night wing nut I recogn. That seemed fair enough. Also, their view on memebership was one that came out of misunderstanding of 'where' people 'were' in the church. Some were not 'committed to that particular ministry, but still phone nubers were in the book, or they were leading home fellowships, w/o the knowldge of even what Vineyard taught, and there were problems with others being 'members' that were actually buddhists! So, the 'formal membership.' We went thru a class of 5 weeks, learning the history of Vineyard, their views on the scriptures, and they way they minister. Intersting I found they did not discuss teh God head at all. After the class, you could decide with FULL knowledge what you were committing to, therefore alleviating misunderstandings from both sides. So, that all said. To 'help' in ministry of any sort, you weren't req. to be a member. But to hold any position, or leadership type, you needed that commitmant. A Ministry Training class was req. for the obvious, ministry to thoses wanting prayer from smeone who rep. the church. Rick went thru the membership class, but is not a member, yet helps in childrens church. I like to help do the grunt type of stuff on community outreaches. Then I get to know people right where they are at. no 'super-ficial' spirituality, on my part or thiers. I still haven't gone to the home fellowships, keep putting it off, but I will join, as I need that enviroment. On another note..it was interesting sitting thru the class. I learned alot. A different approach to ministry in some ways. I realized too, though my few outside of church Christians here tell me thus, that I do know alot of the Word of God and have alot offer. Memebership fiannly gave me a sense of belonging. I still am not sure about some things, but that is my story and I am like sticking to it. ---------- Posted by Richard E. on 9/8/2001, 4:47 pm , in reply to "Re: church membership" I'll be simple and straightforward. I am not big on "joining a church" and becoming a "church member." I feel this way because every born-again believer is a member of THE church. The blood makes you a member, not signing some document. That said, maybe the reason I have a problem with local church membership is that I struggle with committing to church. I have a strong opinion on this matter but I am not afraid to reveal that it might be self-serving! ---------- As long as they know it is garbage Posted by Brian Brookbank on 9/10/2001, 5:50 pm , in reply to "Re: church membership" Dear Chris, Interesting question. Pam and I have led Bible Quiz, Royal Rangers and Missionettes ( Christian boy scouts and girl scouts), Vacation Bible School, Kid's Church and Couples Home Groups all with out being members of members churches. Pam's led worship (she plays piano and guitar and sings) and I have preached and taught Sunday School, again, with out being members of members churches. I have wanted to join churches out of deference to the membership and their sensibilities but have not been willing to pretend that nonsense has meaning. We joined the church we are at now because: 1) The pastor acknowledged that membership is nonsense; and 2)It is a necessary step to drawing papers with in the organization. (Not that I think papers mean anything, but I believe God has put certain messages on my heart for the church world today and they think papers mean things.) As a purist I find membership offensive. But as someone with a heart for the body of Christ and its helpless and hopeless state I think it a permissible nod to foolishness. As with the vast majority of what the once heavily annointed Don Barnett taught, I think our understanding of membership was right and important. The major problem with membership is that that which was paid for by the very costly blood of the Lamb and then freely given- membership in the body of Christ, ends up being granted by those who have no such right to either grant it or withhold it, and who are as often as not the least fit to be pointing out specks, and therefore denying membership, in their brethren's eyes. And yet I think this obvious folly is not worth considering in light of the real problems in the body of Christ, though I would certainly take any non-divisive opportunity to teach against it. BB P.S. Do you ever hear from Moni? ---------- Posted by Chris on 9/11/2001, 3:33 am , in reply to "As long as they know it is garbage" I'm afraid the people in my church don't think of membership as garbage, or at least I'm assuming this, Brian. I'm struggling with the fact that I think there are a lot of older (the greying generation) people in that church who are more interested in their rut than moving out of it. The pastor, on the other hand, is someone I could envision using the word garbage as it would relate to church membership, and he is not above preaching that if he feels so led to. We privately talked about membership one day and he didn't push it one bit. In fact, he mentioned a woman who's been there forever and is very involved but isn't a member as far as he knew. It actually seemed like an unimportant topic to him. I sense that this pastor is there in the interim. He is completely committed to the body, and has no intentions of leaving (but is completely open to the Lord) but he has so much to offer IMHO that God won't keep him there long if the people are unwilling to change (I'm not saying they are at this point). My fear is that I will commit to this one particular body and he will leave in a year. Quite honestly, I don't know how that church would be able to move in the direction God wants it to go if he left. I would feel alone and very uninterested in continuing there without him. He and I are really on the same wavelength in so many ways. We understand what the other is trying to do in our ministries. In fact, he has an evangelist's heart and goes to a conference in Colorado every spring and preaches there. His wife is a sweetheart and a true compliment to him. His kids are grown. I've often thought that if God called me to travel with a ministry such as his to minister in song, I would go. So, while I am content to go to this (small) church and lead a short segment of worship from the piano every Sunday morning, I sense that something more encompassing could be on the horizon. I can't help but hesitate at becoming a member. (My wonderful Christian grandmother was a member there most of her life.) By the same token, I don't want to limit myself in the present. Not one person has ever mentioned church membership to me. I helped lead Vacation Bible School this summer with 2 other people who were members. I was never made to feel like I was on the outside. So, just some more thoughts... Chris No, I have completely lost touch with M. It's been years since I saw or talked to her.