Posted by SB on 8/25/2001, 4:44 pm

Posted by Cliff on 7/2/2001, 11:17 pm , in reply to "Re: Yet more observations" Steve, You say: One of these persons is the Father and one of these person is the Son, who in addition to sharing the deity of the Father was also made in the likeness of man (Philippians 2:5-8) for our salvation. In Hebrews 4:15 We have a high priest ....who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin. God cannot be tempted. Are you saying that Jesus is not a man, but the likeness of man. That his temptation was not really a temptation? This must make his death no big deal for him... Who died? What was this person? ---------- An answer. Posted by Steve B. on 7/3/2001, 8:01 am , in reply to "Re: Yet more observations" Cliff, Do you believe that words can be used in different senses, or that they might mean one thing in one context, and something slightly different in another context? For example, we know that in one place in the OT, it says that God does not change his mind or repent. But in several other places it does in fact show God changing his mind, or stating that he did repent. For example, in Genesis 6 right before the flood, I think, it says that God repented for making man. Again, take the statement that no man has seen God. But in Exodus, with Moses and the elders, we see a passage in which it is explicitly stated they saw God face to face. Do you decide to toss out one verse and keep the other? If not, don't you see that a sense must be found that preserves the truth shown in both passages? The same thing is the case in the verses you cite. A statement in one context that God cannot be tempted is simply not enough for coming to conclusions about who Jesus can or cannot be in his unique existence on earth as a man. Because we are not given all the details of the union of the two natures in Jesus does not nullify the fact the Bible consistently presents him as having both. So when you ask Are you saying that Jesus is not a man, but the likeness of man... my answer is "No, I am saying that Jesus is truly a man, but that in addition to this, he is also truly God." And when you ask Who died? What was this person? I continue to answer "Jesus Christ died, a person who was truly man and truly God. Sincerely, Steve ---------- Re: An answer. Posted by Cliff on 7/3/2001, 3:48 pm , in reply to "An answer." The Genesis scriptures are clarified in Heb 1:1,where he refers to the different times and manners in which he spoke to our forefathers...and in the last days in a Son. Note, in the Greek, it is "in" a Son....right where I believe the Father is. Now, if the Father is in the Son, a lot of scriputes also line up...and He can leave at Christ's death. OK, we do have some common ground. Jesus was truly man and truly God. It's drawing the lines that gets wierd. For Christ to die and "My God, My Gor, why hast thou forsaken me...etc" to be literal...that works for my understanding...just the way it is. You have to do some funny gymnastics with that scripture as you don't seem to want to leave only a man on the cross. Now, understood, the spirit of the man, Jesus, did not die, as that's where the 3 days and taking captivity captive takes place. And if you, somehow, massage your 2nd person as God scenario through that time.....the problem that I have is: I do not see where God, as a second person can be part of the price for sin (seperation from God). Even Zech 12:10 has Yahweh pierced, then weeping for an only son. What a perfect description of the departure at the time of death.