Posted by Cliff Bisch, et al on 8/12/2001, 5:53 pm

Posted by Cliff Bisch on 6/19/2001, 2:35 pm Hi folks. Its only been about 14 years, but all is well with us. I am having problems coming to grip with the interpretation of this passage, as the Greek says "only begotten god". The JWs and Trinitarians can cope with it, but I am struggling. It would compare with Yahweh prophetically calling Jesus "my God (Yahweh) in the O.T. Both of these situations are uneasy ground for me. Any explanations? ---------- Posted by Keith on 6/19/2001, 8:14 pm , in reply to "Jn 1:18 only begotten god" Hi Cliff, you may not remember me but I used to work for your cabinet shop briefly in the mid 80's. There are too many Scripture that show Jesus is someone aside from His Father (Who is God alone). Jesus has been put in a position that every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, here is the catch, to the glory of God the Father. Jesus is in a position to reveal the infinite invisible God, God and man working together. At CC it was taught that Jesus is God, I say Jesus is a man distinct from God, a perfect man that is Gods direct Son. He is in a unique position to reveal His Father, Jesus is the image of the invisible God. I don't totally understand it all but to me that is the only reasonable explanation. He's the only begotten God, because He came forth with a beginning as man, yet Jesus is where we find the Father. That is why the Bible can say in the end the Son will give all things up to the Father, so that God can be all in all. Sounds strange, maybe contradictory to many but that's what I believe, believe it or not. That's my quick rambling explanation. You'll get various input from this board on this subject most likely. ---------- Posted by Cliff on 6/19/2001, 9:53 pm , in reply to "Re: Jn 1:18 only begotten god" Yes, but I am just trying to sort the direct contradiction of "begotten" and god. I understand the overall picture. What's your last name Keith? ---------- Posted by Keith on 6/20/2001, 3:58 pm , in reply to "Re: Jn 1:18 only begotten god" To me this statement I made is the answer. "He's the only begotten God, because He came forth with a beginning as man, yet Jesus is where we find the Father." Again Jesus is highly exalted, to the Glory of the Father. God points to the Father Who desires to reveal Himself to man, (which He is doing through Jesus, JN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.") Begotten points to Jesus, who is a man with a beginning, limited and finite. Maybe you could say Dual nature but I don't think that gives quite the right explanation. God is eternal with no beginning, He is infinite and without limit, if the Bible is interpreted with itself, than what other explanation could there be? At least that is my thought. Oh, my last name is Davidson. ---------- Posted by Author Unknown on 6/20/2001, 12:33 pm , in reply to "Re: Jn 1:18 only begotten god" A small reading from a book entitled "The Hallmark of Christianity" which I am penning. Please carefully and prayerfully consider the veracity of this work after reading it all the way through and checking every quote. “I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee” (Ps2:7). When this Psalm was written, this "day" had yet to come. This scripture is not fulfilled until Christ's resurrection. To substantiate this let’s look at a parallel scripture that will give us a relative view of our text, “God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" (Ac 13:33). This reference to God raising up Jesus, and the reference, "this day have I begotten thee," show that the two events are parallel in time. In the next few pages, we will review more corroborating evidence on this matter. In God's original plan, Adam was to be made into the image of God. Being made is a shaping process; however, Adam never made it through the process and died not attaining the glory God called him into. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, became the first Son of our Father to accomplish that standing. Therefore, Jesus became the firstborn, not only in position, as the Son with the most inheritance, but also in the fact that Jesus was the first Son to come into glory. Let's go back to Psalms and look at the next verse: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession" (2:8). This is exactly what the first Adam lost to the devil! FIRST BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD It is evident that Jesus is the first to achieve resurrection. This is spelled out in Revelation 1:5: "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead." The reason Jesus was raised first and given a glorified body before any other man in history is because God is nonpartisan in his judgments. Fortunately, the judge of the whole universe does not play favorites. God is just ! He would be unjust if he picked the head of the church on any other basis than earned merit. This next verse demonstrates the apostle Paul’s recorded understanding concerning Christ's resurrection and glorification: "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1Co 15:21-22). Here we see another tie between Christ and Adam. Jesus Christ is clearly called a man in this text. Death means separation. The curtain that separated mankind from the presence of God was ripped in two at the time of Christ's death; in Christ we pass from death unto life. We pass into this new life through the veil of Christ's flesh, as it is recorded in the book of Hebrews. JESUS INCREASED IN FAVOUR WITH GOD This next passage is paramount to understanding who Jesus is: "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man" (Lu 2:52). This also was Adam's divine calling – Adam too, was supposed to have increased in wisdom and stature – but while on the path to glory he took a fall. As Jesus “increased in wisdom” he confounded the chief religious rulers. He was in unbroken fellowship with God. The designation Christ means "Anointed One." Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of the Almighty God. It is written concerning Jesus: "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel ... And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?" (Lu 4:16-18; 21-22). The verse Jesus read is from the Old Testament book of Isaiah, and the Hebrew word Yahweh is in that text. The Spirit of Yahweh: The Father of all creation was residing upon him.