Posted by Dave Kenady/Deb Beaton, et al on 8/11/2001, 6:34 pm

The Last Class Goes Out with Class Posted by Dave Kenady on 6/18/2001, 8:23 am In March 1988, Community Chapel split. The church was immediately in a crisis and none of us really realized that the church was destined to be no more. In September 1988, a group of people scrambled to open up Community Chapel Christian School for what proved to be the last year. My daughter, SarahBeth, went into K5 that year. She and her classmates were the last K5ers at CCCS. Well, that last class just graduated from high school! Sarah and her classmates which were about 75% from the Chapel originally had a wonderful graduation from Life Academy of Puget Sound in Federal Way. Congratulations to all of you! (That's Sarah third from the right) ____________________ Please be praying Posted by Deb Beaton on 6/15/2001, 5:17 pm Please pray for darling Frank Guthrie. His health is failing and he needs the saints to support him and his family. He is our dear brother. db ---------- Yes, I will pray for him. Posted by Keith on 6/15/2001, 8:43 pm , in reply to "Please be praying" ---------- Posted by Cliff Bisch on 6/19/2001, 10:00 pm , in reply to "Please be praying" What has happened to him? I have not seen him in 14 years... Cliff ____________________ Posted by Dave Kenady on 6/13/2001, 7:10 pm Qualifications of overseers and deacons: be above reproach, reproach - a cause or occasion of blame, discredit or disgrace. the husband of one wife, temperate, - marked by moderation as a)keeping or held within limits: not extreme or excessive: mild b)moderate in indulgence of appetite or desire c)moderate in the use of intoxicating liquors d)marked by an absence or avoidance of extravagance, violence, or extreme partisanship: restrained. prudent, 1. foresighted, wise 2. shrewd in the management of practical affairs 3. circumspect, discreet 4. provident, frugal respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, pugnacious - having a belligerent nature, truculent, combative. gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. men of dignity, not double-tongued, not fond of sordid gain, sordid - dirty, filthy holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. ---------- Posted by Ed W on 6/14/2001, 9:28 am , in reply to "Qualifications of overseers and deacons" Dave, Your post brings up a subject that I’m still thinking about. This passage is a clear guideline for choosing elders, deacons, and pastors. My question is how does this scripture apply to a person who holds one of these positions that has fallen in some way? Once they’ve failed in the exercise of their ministry or of their personal character is it possible to be returned to that office again? If one could be “restored” through scripturally acceptable means, and could now meet these qualifications, could they lead again? If one had a divorce or moral failing in the distant past (perhaps before they were saved) are they banned? If one turned abusive, self-serving, or lied in their ministry, could they return to their position if due repentance and restoration were made? Assuming one regards DB as biblically disfellowshipped, if he repented and was somehow restored as a brother, could he ever hold the position of pastor or teacher again? I don't say would you accept him as your pastor, but in theory, could he hold that position? I wonder about this because I hate the thought of people giving their lives in service to God, falling because of their sin and weakness, and remaining unusable for the rest of their lives. In asking these questions I don’t mean to negate the damage they may have caused or valid claims of those they offended. Some have so seriously sinned that no one could trust them again. The kingdom of God is not going to collapse because a few big people have stumbled, and I know pastors and teachers are a dime a dozen, but it seems sad to me that anyone would be wasted. ---------- Posted by Anthony W. Savini on 6/14/2001, 12:38 pm , in reply to "Re: Qualifications of overseers and deacons" As far as I can tell the early church was far less forgiving of its officers and laity. Typically there was a period of education, scrutiny even before baptism was allowed. Baptism seems to have meant more than it means now too. Which is why many did not receive baptism until they were on their deathbeds. There was a controversy about whether sins after baptism were forgivable. If a member of that small cadre of "baptists" did commit a sin than expulsion from the church was not unheard of. Baptism In the early church there wasn't a church on every corner or even more than one per city. So getting booted out of the church meant you were basically done for. Even if you moved to another city you couldn't just look up the location of the church at the Forum. ---------- elders, restoration Posted by Steve M on 6/14/2001, 10:32 pm , in reply to "Re: Qualifications of overseers and deacons" I've been reconsidering these issues for years, and have concluded: 1. There is no biblical basis for the title, "the Pastor". Only Jesus Christ is "The Shepherd", with the definite article. I believe that idolatry is implicit in the notion that one man is "The Pastor" of a group for life, and assumption of such a title is a factor in, and perhaps a precursor of, a fall. The head of every man is Christ - 1 Cor 11.3. 2. The Church is not suppose to be divided into laity and clergy. Miller's Church History discusses how this caste system came to be. Jesus said, "I am AMONG you as one who serves", not "I am ABOVE you...". 3. Elders are seasoned saints. Many of those who post here are elders. From among the elders come overseers - men who are called by God to govern the Church. 4. If DB repented he would need to be restored by spiritual people. His teaching gift would be of great benefit to the Church. But the newborn have grown and have no need of a man other than Jesus to be a covering to them. ---------- Posted by Author Unknown on 6/15/2001, 12:09 am , in reply to "elders, restoration" What a post! Wow! "The new born have grown." Such simple words such a great depth of understanding! We have "grown." Just like we were created to do. Some of us have left the nest and are now flying on our own. Others have grown weak feeding and feeding without exercizing their own body. It will all come out in the end. This bird is gonna fly!