Posted by TB on 8/8/2001, 3:25 pm

Posted by Sam Marmon on 5/29/2001, 10:57 pm , in reply to "update on COA" I was surprised to see one COA person there Sunday. This person hosts what many consider the best prayer meeting that COA has, I have attended it before and found it fairly dynamic... but, he says that he really has felt like it has been flat lately, and I was surprised to hear this, because a friend tells me about how he feels like he is getting a lot out of it, so I assumed it was still strong. On another note, COA is having location problems. New ownership is taking over the hall where they meet and they may not be able to continue to meet there within as soon as a month perhaps. I hear attendance is down, which in some ways should encourage COA'ers that the visions coming forth from there are true about the church shrinking to a third of its present size. The pastor is nearing completion of his Judah series, upon which he feels that the Lord will do something major there. What I sort of see as peculiar, is that the visions that came forth were about pastor making a dicision (so called left turn) that would cause many to leave. So far I have seen attendance dwindle through no major happenings at COA, just people looking for something different as I have done. It is very feasable that COA could within months be meeting in a home with 50-70 members if they haven't made arrangements to have a facility. Since I talk to 2 key people(and in the past my dad) involved in the search for facilities, I know that money is no difficulty to COA for them if they were inclined to to buy a very nice facility that would house all the capacity and more that they need now. I think this is not inflammatory and fairly objective but.... I second Lanny's motion to keep COA in our prayers, remember there are many saints we love that go to COA. ---------- Posted by Steve B. on 5/30/2001, 9:40 am , in reply to "You know..." Sam, You write I really don't think its such a big deal to God as far as doctrine goes between the two sides. I'm going to have to continue to disagree with this. If by the “two sides” you mean COA and those now at RLA (the two groups which are mentioned in the posting that started this thread), then the doctrine at issue between them is the doctrine of connections, is it not? “Spiritual connections” are either the will of God for the church (the claim made by COA), or they are not. If they are the will of God for the church, then all of us outside of COA are resisting God himself by refusing to participate in connections. Those of us who have criticized connections would be especially guilty. That is, when I read the Bible, I get the impression that God finds active opposition to Him to be a very big deal indeed. On the other hand, if connections are not the will of God for the church, then COA is a bizarre, isolated group instead of a forerunner in “the move of God.” I cannot help but think that the divorces, the suicides, and the ruined ministries at the Chapel are also big deals in God's eyes. At least, I hope that he is not indifferent to spiritual disasters of that scale. So whatever way I look at it, I cannot conclude that the differences in doctrine are “not a big deal to God.” However, I will say this. I do regret name-calling under the guise of heavy-handed humor like the posting that initiated this thread. I actually agree with Eric when he calls it “stupid” and “mindless.” That kind of thing, besides for being poorly written and not very insightful (in my experience I have not found COA people to be robotic), trivializes the issues at stake. I like humour, but I want it to illuminate the subject rather than to simply take slaps at something the unknown author does not like. So I apologize on behalf of the anti-connection folks for crudities like the above. That kind of thing is not part of my case against connections or COA. Sincerely, Steve Born Email: srborn@seanet.com Home page: http://www.seanet.com/~srborn/ ---------- Posted by EricO on 6/1/2001, 10:41 pm , in reply to "Re: You know..." Thank you Steve! ---------- Posted by Sam Marmon on 5/30/2001, 4:16 pm , in reply to "Re: You know..." I didn't know you could put your responses in cool pieces of paper! :) I would qualify my stance by saying that yes doctrine is a big deal to God but that God has the ability to look beyond what people practice and teach and look to their hearts to see whether they have a heart after God or not. We all believe that there are profound differences doctrine wise throughout the church as a whole yet we accept baptists, lutherans, AOG, pentecostals, vineyards etc as brothers and sisters in the Lord (all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved). Some of these differences led to great strife and even violence among the body of Christ. While we could debate the doctrinal differences between churches, it does not negate the fact that God is drawing ALL men to a closer place with him at the place they are at. God accepts us where we are, not where we should be truth/doctrine/sin wise. I believe that the homosexual can come to salvation as he is without understanding or repentance of their sins. When he prays the sinner's prayer, he repents of all his sins whether he recognizes them or not as sin. From that point on, the Lord will attempt to draw him closer to him and away from his sin, but he is still saved. So I do stand on the belief that doctrine is not that big of a deal to God, it is more out of relationship. So many places demand doctrinal compliance, but I believe the greater emphasis should be on personal relationship with Jesus. I belief that everyone is entitled to interpret the Bible for himself whether he is wrong or right, and whether or not he would be teachable from someone more learned. Remember too that I have left COA and I have abandoned the doctrine of connections as it is practiced at COA, but I still do believe in agape love manifested one to another as the Bible instructs us to do. I haven't really formed a biblical opinion on what manifestations of agape should be, but we do have quite an example in Acts. Greet one another with a holy kiss.. don't really know what that is supposed to mean to me, but I don't really kiss anybody period at this time, so I guess maybe that applied more to the culture of the day. Western culture has never been that intimate. The love of Jonathan to David surpassed that of women.... I doubt David was gay, so I dunno how I am to interpret that except agape of some type. Anyways, I think I still believe in connections to the extent that Dave wrote about in his BC paper, but I don't really feel any pressure to do anything about them. Yeah, so I love some people and I think its God's love. I don't run up to them and start frenching them or something. I might hug them and look them in the eye and say something like you really mean a lot to me, but I don't get anything from kissing somebody, and as far as my conscience is concerned, I am in God's will there. Anyways my whole thing is to say that God is looking on the heart, if God was looking for perfect doctrine the pharisees would have been the disciples rather than common working people. Anyways I probably didn't state it exactly as I would want to, but remember I am still a work in progress and have not set in stone exactly what I believe in everything.