Posted by Anon.II, et al on 4/17/2001, 1:01 pm

Posted by Anon.II on 3/27/2001, 1:27 pm “Because we were worshipping and pursuing fellowship not with God but with (as we thought) a glorified man, we got further and further off the path as we tried to walk with Him.” This statement was given as a conclusion from the following evidence from the post by (Steve B. on 3/16/2001, 3:56 pm) “In September of 1983, Don preached a sermon series on “Having Fellowship with the Son of Man.” The notes I took of it include these remarks: Is Jesus worshipped as deity only, or also as the son of man? The word ‘Christ’ does not speak of deity; it speaks of humanity (‘Christ’ means anoninted—God is the anointer, not the anointed.) We are to worship the Son of Man—not the man of Nazareth, but the glorified Son of Man... It is God's will that we have fellowship w/His Son: ? Col 1:9 - fellowship w/his Son. It is not enough to have fellowship legally. He wants us to have it exprerientially. It is not enough to legally put on X—God wants it experientially. We need a real spiritual union.—a flow both ways. God wants us to know Him. This union starts when we are born-again and increases through several steps. BHS, etc. The love of the Son of Man is not romantic—it shd not be difficult for men to experience—it is a spiritual thing—He died for us and is now glorified. When “spiritual unions” did arrive three years later, here is how Barbara described her first experience with one: Jesus was there—with me—looking into my eyes and seeing everything I was. With all knowledge, He still gave me unconditional acceptance. I looked into his eyes and I saw Jesus my Friend, my Savior, my Lover and Bridegroom! I was experiencing Jesus with skin on! We never touched. Our spirits merged—we became one. The song ended. Overwhelmed, I staggered to the wall. Another song began; he came to me and we worshipped again. When that song ended, he said, “Thank you, Barbara,” and backed away to the door. I slumped to the floor in complete joy and ecstasy. ...It was 3:00 a.m. before I could walk down the stairs to my car. I knew that Jesus, the glorified Son of Man, had—in union with another human being's spirit—manifested Himself to me, and by doing so, our spirits melded into one. I was certain the Father had answered Jesus' prayer of John 17:21—‘That they may be one as we are’.” How do these statements prove that Chapel was “worshipping and pursuing fellowship not with God but with (as we thought) a glorified man”? When were we ever taught to worship Jesus apart from His deity? In fact, I see that Barbara specifically references John 17:21 and the oneness Jesus has with the Father. I’m not even sure how the Trinitarian mindset sees Jesus as being seen as separate from the Father in these statements. If anyone believes that Jesus is fully God and fully man, where does it teach that His human nature is not acknowledged in worship? These charges especially coming from one who believes that Jesus’ personage is both human and divine strike me as odd. Is Steve asserting that we are worshiping His human nature alone? How is that gotten from the evidence given above? Seems pretty flimsy to me. Does Jesus want us to consider His human nature when we fellowship with Him. YES! He was “the Son of man. “ ***The Son of man IS Jesus Christ! Mat 16:13-16 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. ***Jesus instituted the last supper so that we WOULD RELATE with His human nature. We are to spiritually eat His flesh and drink His blood. I do not see how a person does not have his human nature in mind when worshiping Him. Jhn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. ***It is when we lift up the Son of man that we know that He speaks what the Father taught Him. Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. Jhn 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? ***The Son of man is glorified AND God is glorified in Him! Jhn 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, the hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Jhn 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. ***When Stephen was about to be stoned he SAW Jesus as the Son of man, after His ascension. Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. ***Finally, John’s vision sees the Son of man as He that liveth, and was dead; and is alive for evermore. Rev 1:13-20 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. (v.18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death. ***We are called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ! 1 Corinthians 1:9 1 Corinthians 1 1 Corinthians 1:8-10 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Philippians 3:10 Philippians 3 Philippians 3:9-11 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 1 John 1:3 1 John 1 1 John 1:2-4 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:6 1 John 1 1 John 1:5-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1 John 1:7 1 John 1 1 John 1:6-8 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Matthew 2:11 Matthew 2 Matthew 2:10-12 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh. 4352 proskuneo {pros-koo-neh'-o} from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); TDNT - 6:758,948; v AV - worship 60; 60 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence 2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence 3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank 3a1) to the Jewish high priests 3a2) to God 3a3) to Christ 3a4) to heavenly beings 3a5) to demons I do not see our Oneness view giving license to anyone to worship Jesus apart from His Deity.