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On this day in 1603

Posted by Carolyn on March 24, 2024, 10:11 am

Queen Elizabeth died. She was 69 years old.

Re: On this day in 1603

Posted by Karen on March 24, 2024, 11:46 am, in reply to "On this day in 1603"

James VI King of Scots became King James Sixth of Scotland and First of England. Thus uniting the two Kingdoms of Scotland and England into one United Kingdom.

Re: On this day in 1603

Posted by Nellie on March 24, 2024, 5:58 pm, in reply to "Re: On this day in 1603"

Karen, I wonder if it is simple to explain to me, us, how the shift in titling comes about, from "of Scots" to "of Scotland" please.

Re: On this day in 1603

Posted by Karen on March 24, 2024, 7:08 pm, in reply to "Re: On this day in 1603"

the shift in titling comes about, from "of Scots" to "of Scotland"

It's offically still 'of Scots' and is used on offical occasions. See the link to the Presiding Officer's speech at the Opening of the Scottish Parliament in 2021.

https://archive2021.parliament.scot/VisitorInformation/Presiding_Officer_Speech.pdf

Once the two countries united slowly the shift began with the Scottish nobles etc adopting the English usage 'of Scotland' to descibe the monarch in Scotland. Over the centuries it's now common to say the King/Queen of Scotland. Though it's more common just to say the King or Queen when talking about the monarch.

Re: On this day in 1603

Posted by Nellie on March 24, 2024, 9:02 pm, in reply to "Re: On this day in 1603"

Thank you Karen. Seems it has much to do with context and the nationality of the writer or speaker.

United Kingdom

Posted by JohnW on March 24, 2024, 6:34 pm, in reply to "Re: On this day in 1603"

Scotland and England remained independent kingdoms in personal union under James VI and I, Charles I, Charles II, William and Mary and, subsequently, William, ruling alone. It was only during the reign of Queen Anne that, in 1707, the United Kingdom was established by complimentary legislation passed in both the Scottish and English Parliaments.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/act-of-union-1707/#:~:text=The%20Acts%20of%20Union%2C%20passed,first%20time%20in%20October%201707.

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by JohnW on March 24, 2024, 6:37 pm, in reply to "United Kingdom "

Please interpose James II between Charles II and William and Mary!

OOPS!

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by Karen on March 24, 2024, 7:16 pm, in reply to "United Kingdom "

The countries offically united in 1707 with the Union Of the Parliaments. However the kingdoms of England, Scotland and Ireland were united in a personal union with the accession of James VI King of Scots on this day in 1603 to the English Crown. This was the Union of the Crowns and perhaps I should have said James' accession created the United Kingdoms.

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by JohnW on March 25, 2024, 12:58 am, in reply to "Re: United Kingdom "

Let us agree to disagree, then.

To my mind, the kingdoms being in personal union is a very different thing from being a United Kingdom. At a later stage, the UK and Hannover were in personal union but did not comprise a United Kingdom.

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by Nellie on March 25, 2024, 1:46 am, in reply to "Re: United Kingdom "

Hmm. Interesting. James became monarch of two kingdoms. That gets my vote.

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by JohnW on March 25, 2024, 2:06 am, in reply to "Re: United Kingdom "

Three, Nellie, or even four. He also succeeded as King of Ireland and maintained (at least technically) the claim of Kings of England to be also the legitimate Kings of France, a claim only surrendered, iirc, by George III!

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by Nellie on March 25, 2024, 2:41 am, in reply to "Re: United Kingdom "

I'd better go find when Ireland joined the story.
Link -
https://www.history.com/news/united-kingdom-scotland-northern-ireland-wales

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by JohnW on March 25, 2024, 3:09 am, in reply to "Re: United Kingdom "

From memory, it was elevated to a Kingdom by Henry VIII.

Re: United Kingdom

Posted by Carolyn on March 25, 2024, 9:22 am, in reply to "Re: United Kingdom "

I'm disappointed that the topic has slipped into a discussion of the founding of the UK. I have the same birthday as Queen Elizaeth I and for that reason have always been interested in her. I'm not too concerned about what happened after she died.

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