Posted by Illuminati on 4/27/2005, 12:57 am, in reply to "Re: More Miracles in Islam" I can understand why they would want to translate this verse as "leave" rather than "beat." "It is important to know that Allah Almighty clearly prohibits for Muslim men to harm their wives: "...Do not retain them (your wives) to harm them...(2:231)" "002.231 This seems to be talking about divorce and harming them through a remarriage. What does that have to do with a man whose wife has just disobeyed him? Where does it say not to cause bruises? Some women bruise easily. "Verses 4:34-36 might be viewed by the West as unequalizing Verses between men and women. The idea of beating in any form is not acceptable in western cultures. which had resulted in enforcing rules on the society that prohibit even the parent from beating his/her child. Even teachers in schools are too scared to touch their students. This corrupted ideology has created very disrespectful societies!" Do I understand you correctly? Are you saying it is corrupt for society to forbid men to beat their wives? "Once, he was asked "What if the wife intentionally disobeys her husband in what Allah Almighty has permitted for him upon her? And what if the wife flirts with other men, or can't be trusted to honor her husband's dignity? How should it be dealt with?" The answer to those two questions was the Verses 4:34-35." I'm curious to learn your source on this one. Is this from a hadity or one of your teachers? "These Verses prove that Islam is by far the most merciful and rational religion to women, because it not only gives the woman 2 chances to repent before she gets beaten, but it also saves her from getting divorced and destroy her family." It certainly appears you are embracing wife beating as a positive thing for the women themselves. It appears some women just need a beating once in awhile to keep them happy and healthy. What could be more glorious than Islam which, Allah be praised, is the only religion in the world which makes provisions to fulfil women's true needs and provides for the beatings they need. All the other degenerate religions are deficient in this respect. As I asked you before, how do you handle these things? Do you believe you are incompetent to remember an oral contract? Do you lack common sense? Do you believe the bulk of the residents of hell will be women? Do you believe God has given men the right to beat their wives? It appears the answer to the last question is affirmative, men do have the right to beat their wives. I suspect if you answered that question "yes" you would answer the rest of the questions in the same way, "yes." Am I correct? Apparently women need beatings at times but the husbands don't. Is that correct? Is that part of the difference between Muslim men and women? I have to assume that is the case since I know of no provisions in the Koran for the wife to beat the husband when he disobeys her or flirts. Why is that? And yes the men do flirt, otherwise how would they end up with more than one wife? I'm also curious about the positive passages in the Koran about women. You claim Islam is, "most merciful and rational religion to women," so I would expect some passages praising women. Can you give me some which say women are just as good or better than men at anything? I do believe there are some passages which mention women's beauty which they should not flaunt, but otherwise women always seem to be the inferiors, the polluters, the incompetent. Can you demonstrate from the Koran where women are actually elevated and praised for their role in society? Let me give you a passage from the Bible to get things started. I'm waiting to hear something similar from the Koran.
206.206.120.230
"Wife beating anytime and for any reason is never allowed in Islam. There is however a condition in Noble Verse 4:34 where Allah Almighty seems to allow the husband to beat his wife, and that is after he gives her two warnings to stop showing ill-conduct and disloyalty toward him. There is however a disagreement with some Muslim scholars on the interpretation of the word "beat" in the Noble Verse, because it could literally mean "hit" or "leave"."
"First of all, I do not agree with the English translators of the Noble Quran to add the word "(lightly)" in between parenthesis like if they were ashamed of their own Holy Book! Second, if someone really honestly wants to understand the Quran, then he/she must not just only read the Verses from it, but also study the history of each verse because each verse in the Quran came for a purpose."
Why was this verse given? I'm curisous about why you think this verse was given? Do you know the purpose?
So brutally beating the wives and causing bruises and damages to their bodies is clearly prohibited in Islam. But Allah also on the other hand, didn't say to gently tap (lightly) them when it's time to physically punish them as some Muslim scholars like to make it appear. No, a Muslim man has to be moderate in his beating by sending the clear message to the disloyal wife, and at the same time by keeping her out of harm's way."
YUSUFALI: When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul. Do not treat Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things.
PICKTHAL: When ye have divorced women, and they have reached their term, then retain them in kindness or release them in kindness. Retain them not to their hurt so that ye transgress (the limits). He who doeth that hath wronged his soul. Make not the revelations of Allah a laughing-stock (by your behaviour), but remember Allah's grace upon you and that which He hath revealed unto you of the Scripture and of wisdom, whereby He doth exhort you. Observe your duty to Allah and know that Allah is Aware of all things.
SHAKIR: And when you divorce women and they reach their prescribed time, then either retain them in good fellowship or set them free with liberality, and do not retain them for injury, so that you exceed the limits, and whoever does this, he indeed is unjust to his own soul; and do not take Allah's communications for a mockery, and remember the favor of Allah upon you, and that which He has revealed to you of the Book and the Wisdom, admonishing you thereby; and be careful (of your duty to) Allah, and know that Allah is the Knower of all things."
Prov 31:10 - Eccl 1:1
10 A wife of noble character who can find?She is worth far more than rubies. 11 Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. 12 She brings him good, not harm,all the days of her life. 13 She selects wool and flax and works with eager hands. 14 She is like the merchant ships,bringing her food from afar. 15 She gets up while it is still dark;she provides food for her family and portions for her servant girls. 16 She considers a field and buys it;out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. 17 She sets about her work vigorously;her arms are strong for her tasks. 18 She sees that her trading is profitable,and her lamp does not go out at night. 19 In her hand she holds the distaff and grasps the spindle with her fingers. 20 She opens her arms to the poor and extends her hands to the needy. 21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;for all of them are clothed in scarlet. 22 She makes coverings for her bed;she is clothed in fine linen and purple. 23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,where he takes his seat among the elders of the land. 24 She makes linen garments and sells them,and supplies the merchants with sashes. 25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;she can laugh at the days to come. 26 She speaks with wisdom,and faithful instruction is on her tongue. 27 She watches over the affairs of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness. 28 Her children arise and call her blessed;her husband also, and he praises her: 29 "Many women do noble things,but you surpass them all." 30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised. 31 Give her the reward she has earned,and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
NIV
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