Posted by Illuminati on 6/21/2009, 7:46 pm, in reply to "Re: NIV Defended"
75.173.17.91
Amir said:
The words light of life do not appear in the Septuagint Masoretic Text.
Amir, you are confusing the Masoretic Hebrew text with the Greek translation called the Septuagint. The Masoretic text has been the standard text for both Jews and Christ for many years. The Masoretic text is the standardized Jewish text which was formalized by the Masorites about 600 years A.D. The Septuagint is a much older Greek translation from Egypt from about 200 years BC. The early Christian church relied heavily on the Septuagint, but modern Christins have generally relied on the Masoritic text since it is not a translation, but is in Hebrew. At times the Septuagint differs from the Masoretic text. Until recently, Christians would go with the Masoritic text when there are differences. However, with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls which date to Jesus' day, scholars have another source in the original Hebrew. In the case in which you are so worked up, the translators of the NIV decided to go with the rendering in the Septuagint since it is also confirmed in the Dead Sea scrolls. Although this approach is different from what modern Christians have usually followed, they are completely within their rights to chose what they decided is the correct rendering.
Amir posted:
""When I ask where's the goodness in Islam, what I was asking is what new understanding of God can I find from Islam which is not already available in Christianity.""
Islam preaches pure monotheism. The absolute fundamental of Islam is that God alone (what Christians refer to as God the Father) is the sole deity. Surah 112 of the Quran is quite explicit about this:
He is God, the only One,
God the Everlasting.
He did not beget and is not begotten,
And none is His equal.
This hapter of the Quran is a definition of God.If anyone or anything fulfils this criterai,only then can he be God.
Both Christians and Jews believe that God is one God. The question I'm asking is what advanced understanding of God's character have the Muslims achieved. I'm not talking about rote memory, or blindly following instructions. I want to know what new understanding Muslims bring to the table. For example, why does it matter whether we believe in one God, or if we believe in many Gods like the Hindus? If monotheism doesn't show up in better people and more just societies, what use is the idea? Jesus was very clear about this, by their fruits we shall know them. Where are the good fruits of Islam? If Islam is the best religion, then we should expect to find Muslims at the forefront of science, philosophy, democracy, and human rights?
Amir posted:
""Amir you have asked for more witnesses. This is not the only instance in which the Patriarchs saw Jehovah. Moses saw Him."
"The LORD would speak to Moses face to face , as a man speaks with his friend.""
The phrase "face to face" is not used here to refer to their physical position in relation to one another, but the intimate nature of the God's discourse with Moses.
Deuteronomy 34:10 says that the God "knew" Moses "face to face".Again, the phrase "face to face" is not being used of physical position, but of their relationship.How did GOD know Moses face to face? The following verses tells us, "In all the signs and the wonders, which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land, and in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel."(34:11-12).
Amir, I don't buy your argument. Let me post one of these texts again.
Num 12:8
With him I speak face to face ,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?"
NIV
Not only did Moses speak "face to face" with Jehovah, but he also saw "the form of the Lord."
Amir posted:
""If we accept Jesus’ statement that no one has seen the Father, then who is this Jehovah who Abraham and Moses saw?""
As i mentionned above we can accept his statement and yet explain it.Are u telling me that we shoud reject Jesus'(pbuh) statement?
Absolutely not. Jesus statement is in perfect agreement with the Biblical record. Moses saw Jesus, Jehovah, not His Father. Jesus' human form is the form in which God appears to humans.
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