Posted by Illuminati on 6/20/2009, 10:39 pm, in reply to "Uthman's Recension"
75.173.17.91
Amir said:
Is it?Paul is the founder of modern christianity and although he clearly contradicted Jesus (peace be upon him) christians foloow each and evry of his words.
Whether he had few or much opprtunities to contradict Jesus,it doesn t matter.He clearly contradicted him and thats my point and its surprising u are defending this.U who claim to be a faithful follower of Jesus(peace be upon him).l
Actually, the founder of Christianity is Jesus. Without Jesus, there would be no Christianity. That does not diminish Paul importance. He was very important in establishing early Christianity as a universal religion. Paul was apparently a genius, who was able to interpreting Judaism and the Jewish Messiah for gentiles. As such, everyone who loves Western Civilization, with its monotheism, its learning, and its freedoms, owes Paul, the Jewish theologian, a great debt of gratitude.
Amir posted:
Who will have Eternal life??
According to Paul:Rom.6
23.For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus says:
Matt 19
29.And every one who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
Luke.14
[28] For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?
[33] So therefore, whoever of you does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple.
So do u follow Jesus (peace be upon him) or Paul?
Amir, I don't see any contradiction. Later on in this post, you quoted Jesus saying something very similar to what Paul said.
Amir also posted:
Paul says:
I Corinthians 15
31:I protest, brethren, by my pride in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
Jesus says:
John 11
26:and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die.
I can see why someone who doesn't understand Paul's writings would think this is a contradiction. As I understand Him, Jesus was talking about the state of the spirit after physical death. Paul was discussing spiritual death to the evil desires which we all experience.
Amir posted:
Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
According to Paul, God judges people according to their knowledge. Because it is God's desire to save as many people as possible compatible with their free will, He will make allowances for those who don't know the law. That statement has nothing to do with the guilt incurred by those who knowingly reject Jesus.
Amir posted:
Paul says:
1Cor.4
15. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Phlm.1
10. I appeal to you for my child, Ones'imus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.
Jesus says:
Matt.23
9. AND CALL NO MAN YOU FATHER ON EARTH, FOR YOU HAVE ONE FATHER,WHICH IS IN HEAVENS.
Amazing isn t it?Can u still not see the difference?
Anyone who considers Paul as his father has REJECTED the teachings of Jesus(peace be upon him).And u claim to be a faithful follower of Jesus.
I have never known a Christian who calls Paul his father. There is no passage that I know of where Paul demanded that anyone call him father. I do admit that there are Christians who ignore this passage and call their priests "father." According to my exegesis, that is a mistake.
Amir posted:
3.How to get eternal life??
Paul says:
Rom.5
[21] so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jesus says:
John.5
[24] Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me,has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
In this passage, Jesus has expressed the same gospel which Paul teaches. Anyone, who believes in Jesus' teachings, has eternal life. In other words, it is not works which save us, but belief. That is the heart of the gospel. However, in the New Testament belief means more than a simple mental assent to truth. Belief means actually accepting Jesus’ teaching into our lives and living them. We do good works because we are saved, not in order to be saved. Let me reemphasize this point, we do good works because we are already saved by our faith in Jesus and His teachings, not in order to be saved. This is an extremely important moral principle since it enables us to escape extreme fundamentalism.
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