Posted by Illuminati on 6/14/2009, 8:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Jesus' Divinity 2"
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Amir posted:
Is Jesus Divine because he had GOD's Spirit upon him?
Isaiah 11:2 says that "The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him" but it doesn t mean that he is God because there were others in the Bible who carried GOD's Spirit in them:
1 Kings 22:23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
2 Chronicles 18:21 " 'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
Numbers 24:2
"When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him"
""Obviously, if ordinary humans could contain God’s spirit, Jesus also contained God’s spirit. But in Him, His relationship to God’s Spirit was different. God’s Spirit was His by nature, rather than as a later gift. God’s Spirit was Jesus’ Spirit. Jesus’ spirit is divine.""
Amir, the point I'm making is that just as we are all God's sons, we can all have God's spirit. According to the Bible, this is not a strange thing.
At this point, I'm not expressing anyone's ideas but my own. Other Christians might disagree with my understanding. My understanding is that all of us can be filled with God's spirit. However, while we can receive God's Spirit, His spirit is not our own spirit, but a gift. Jesus was different from ordinary humans because God's spirit which was within Jesus was Jesus' spirit. In other words, God's Holy Spirit = Jesus' Spirit = God's Holy Spirit. This is what Jesus meant when He claimed a sonship which transcended any sonship which ordinary humans can claim.
Amir said:
I would like u to prove your point.This is only your interpretation again and there is nothing which shows that we have to consider Jesus(pbuh) as the Creater of this Universe or someone who is equal to GOD just because GOD had put his spirit in him,and not consider the many others who carried GOD's spirit above as equal to GOD.
I have no doubt that you are honest in your approach.However u can understand the need for solid proof to establish the truth because the question is of utmost importance.
My view of Jesus' nature is the best explanation I have been able to come up with for the information we find in the Bible. Because none of us understand God's essence, we can never prove exactly how Jesus and the Father are related. The doctrine of the trinity is not an absolute truth which has fallen from heaven. It is Christians' attempt to understand as much about God as we can based on what He has chosen to reveal to us. What we do know is that Jesus claimed a special relationship with the Father which transcended anything available to ordinary humans.
Amir posted:
In exodus it says :"Egoo Eimi Ho Oon" meaning 'I am what i am'.
In john it says:"egoo eimi."
See the difference?
In john it says :"egoo eimi."meaing 'I am'
This clearly shows that they are different.
Obviously, the passage in Exodus is in Hebrew while the passage in John is in Greek. As I understand it, the Hebrew text emphasizes God's self existence. Jehovah’s name is I AM. In the statement "before Abraham, I AM," Jesus not only claimed that He had an existence before He was born to Mary, but that His existence is timeless. I am is the present tense. For Jesus, His existence is always in the present tense just like His Father's.
When Jesus applied the title to Himself, they knew exactly what He meant. That is why they tried to stone Him.
Ex 3:13-15
13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers — the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob — has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.
NIV
Amir posted:
Accepting worship doesn t mean one is God.
Daniel 2:46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and WORSHIPPED Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
As can be seen from the above the Daniel accepted worship,so according to your logic ,he shouls also be God,isn t it?
If u claim that Jesus is God because he did not reject their worship then u must also accept Daniel as God because he also did not reject the worship of the king.
This is why i asked for a saying of Jesus saying he accepted worship because he was almighty God.This would be different ,because he is now claiming to be almighty God himself.
In the context in Daniel, we see that Daniel gives credit to God, and that in turn the king gives credit to God, not to Daniel. In other words he wasn't accepting worship directed towards himself.
Dan 2:26-28&2:46-47
26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;...
46 Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
KJV
When Jesus accepted worship, the source of the miracle which prompted the worship came from within Jesus Himself.
Matt 14:32-33
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
NIV
Whereas the King gave God credit for Daniel's miraculous interpretation of his dream, the peope who worshiped Jesus gave Jesus Himself credit for the miracles He had worked.
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