Posted by Iluminait on 6/14/2009, 8:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Jesus' Divinity"
75.173.17.91
Amir posted:
""It shows that Jesus possessed attributes which are normally associated with God. Those who were acquainted with the Old Testament recognized the implications of His claim.""
Those attributes were "given" to him by God as he himself said.As far as his miracles are concerned,well non of them are unique.
1.In 2 Kings 4,Elisha brought the dead back to life.
2.In 2 Kings 6 Elisha cured the blind.
3.In 2 Kings 5 He cured leprosy.
4.Moses created a live snake from a wooden stick.This doesn t mean he is God,does it??
If u r trying to use Jesus'(pbuh) miracles to prove his divinity then i'm sorry but none of them proves his divinity because "Jesus can do nothing by himself" (5:19)
I'm not sure where you came up with this line of argument. As I pointed out, Daniel 7:14 describes the son of man this way:
14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
I'm unaware of any prophet who can rightfully claim to have those attributes. Which human prophet will be worshiped by all people? Jesus' dominion is an everlasting dominion. Which other prophet can claim that honor?
You asked the following question:
The actual translation is not "worship" but "SERVE".These are different words,arent they?
The original aramaic word won't help you out here. You are correct that the word translated "worship" can also be translated "serve." In either translation, the object of the worship/service is a god. (ex. Daniel 3:12,14,17)
I believe the rest the description of the son of man in Daniel 7 is self evident.
Jesus, Himself, believed that only one miracle could serve as a definitive sign of His Messiahship.
Luke 11:29-32
29 As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign , but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. 30 For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation. 31 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here. 32 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.
NIV
Amir posted:
""Jesus directly referenced Daniel at His trial.
Matt 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.""
Nowhere do we see Jesus saying he was God.He said he was the "son of God".
He used the old testament to say that men were gods and sons of god.We are all children of god since We were all created by god.Since he was also created by God,he is also the son of God like all of us.
Psalm 82:6
"I said,'You are "gods"; you ARE ALL SONS of the Most High.' "
Amir, are you now prepared to accept that the Bible does indeed teache that Jesus is God's son? Are you also prepared to accept that this designation is true? It appears that that is the case based on what you have posted here. If that is the case, then you need to come up with an explanation for this statement in the Koran which Muslims often use to deny that Jesus is God's Son.
002.116
YUSUFALI: They say: "Allah hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.
PICKTHAL: And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are subservient unto Him.
SHAKIR: And they say: Allah has taken to himself a son. Glory be to Him; rather, whatever is in the heavens and the earth is His; all are obedient to Him.
If we are all God's sons, then how to explain this passage? From what I've read, it is possible that this passage in the Koran is an attack on tritheism not on Jesus' legitimate sonship. However, it is not for me to tell you how to understand the Koran. Ultimately, the interpretation of the Koran belongs to Muslims.
The Bible uses the term son of God in exactly the way you use it. Here is an example.
Gal 3:26-29
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
NIV
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