Posted by Amir on 6/8/2009, 3:59 pm, in reply to "Jesus' Divinity"
41.212.203.118
""The New Testament strongly supports the Divinity of Jesus. Jesus and His disciples were not inventing a new doctrine. As I have already pointed out, in the messianic prophecy of Daniel, the son of man accepts worship.""
Accepting worship doesn t mean one is God.
Daniel 2:46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and WORSHIPPED Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
As can be seen from the above the Daniel accepted worship,so according to your logic ,he shouls also be God,isn t it?
If u claim that Jesus is God because he did not reject their worship then u must also accept Daniel as God because he also did not reject the worship of the king.
This is why i asked for a saying of Jesus saying he accepted worship because he was almighty God.This would be different ,because he is now claiming to be almighty God himself.
The new testament clearly established the fact that Jesus is not God,so to claim that the same book later on,bears witness to his divinity is a clear cut contradiction and we cannot establish a doctrine from it.
""Jesus directly referenced Daniel at His trial.
Matt 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.""
Nowhere do we see Jesus saying he was God.He said he was the "son of God".
He used the old testament to say that men were gods and sons of god.We are all children of god since We were all created by god.Since he was also created by God,he is also the son of God like all of us.
Psalm 82:6
"I said,'You are "gods"; you ARE ALL SONS of the Most High.' "
Christians that i have come across claim Jesus being God's unique son lead us to the conclusion that Jehovah is Jesus.
They rely heavily on John 3:16
"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
While at first glance it appears that the we can conclude that Jesus is not God.However this is not correct and using other verses,we can ultimately arrive at a logical explanation of the above.
Why would God call Jesus his only begotten son when we know that all of us are his childrens.The answer to this is because the Bible uses expressions like this to magnify people or to glorify someone on a certain occasion.
Hebrews 11:17
"By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son...."
Abraham had 2 sons but here Isaac is mentionned as being the one and only son of the prophet Abraham(PBUH).This is why john 3:16 doesn t constitute a proof of Jesus'(pbuh) divinity.
Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."
Is Israel God?ceratinly not.
Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."
Is Ephraim God?Certainly not.
Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
Is David God?No.
I don t see why Jesus should be considered as God then.I did not use the Quran but the Bible only to support my claims.We cannot be selective and reject whatever doesn t suit us.If Jesus is considered God because he is called "son of God",then David,Ephraim and Israel should also be God.
the word "Son" doesn't mean actual biological "Son" at all.It just means that Jesus is a "Son" of Jehovah in a way that Jehovah loved him so much that he chose him to be his messenger to the people of Israel.
Luke 5:16
"And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."
It is clearly mentionned that Jesus was praying to HIS god.How can he be God then??
Now u quoted John 8:
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
No where in those passages does Jesus say he existed before Abraham, this is bad mis handling and mis-understanding of the text. The fact that Jesus said that before Abraham he was, does not mean he existed literally.I would like u to prove from the passage that they do in fact show Jesus EXISTED before Abraham, because no where in those passages do we see Jesus claiming that he did exist and was on earth or in heaven.
In exodus it says :"Egoo Eimi Ho Oon" meaning 'I am what i am'.
In john it says:"egoo eimi."
See the difference?
In john it says :"egoo eimi."meaing 'I am'
This clearly shows that they are different.
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