Posted by Amir on 5/27/2009, 5:29 pm, in reply to "Re: The Koran and the Messiah 2"
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"Mohammad’s primary attack seems to be against Jesus. He accuses those who recognize Jesus’ divinity of blasphemy. Mohammad doesn’t reject the fact that Jesus is the Messiah, but he appears to reject the claim that the Messiah is divine. This is exactly the charge the high priest brought against Jesus at His trial."
The prophet Muhammad(SAW) never attacked Jesus(peace be upon him).We deny that Jesus is God and Jesus(peace be upon him)himself doesn t state that he is God.He always claimed that God is one.
""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?
And notice how Jesus(peace be upon him) says "God ALONE".Why would he say that if he was God?
64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Here also we can see that Jesus did not claim to be God.
He didn t say he was the mighty one did he?
"Because the Biblical evidence regarding Jesus’ position as “Messiah” is so robust, there is no way to reduce Jesus to just a regular prophet without rejecting the entire Bible. Anyone who wishes to understand the Messiah will need to understand some of the Old Testament Prophecies. There are some unambiguous Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament. One of the first is in Genesis."
We do not reduce him to a regular prophet.Islam clearly view Jesus(peace be upon him) as one of the 4 great prophets,The others being Abraham,Moses and the prophet Muhammad(peace be upon them all).Out of the hundreds of thousands of prophets,Jesus is highly regarded in islam.
"While the Messiah is called “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9"
Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods" (Elohim; plural to El); you are all sons of the Most High.' " "gods" here in Hebrew is "Elohim", which is plural of "EL". It is the same exact thing as "EL" used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6, since "gods" is a combination of several "EL"s. And as clearly shown here, for someone to be called "god" or "God" in the Bible it wouldn't make him GOD Almighty Himself, the LORD or Jehovah.
The old Jewish culture gave "Godly" titles to people who are not in anyway divine.
Notice that in Isaiah 9:6, it clearly says "and his NAME shall be...." This clearly proves that "Mighty God" is just a name given to the coming Prophet(Jesus).Since this is just a name, this also clearly proves other people in the old Jewish culture were named that name before, even if they're not mentioned in the current Bible.
Have Isaiah 9:6 said "and he will be God Almighty Himself" or "and he will be the God Almighty" then this would be different, because we now would be talking about not just a NAME given to someone, but rather GOD Almighty Himself.
" While the Messiah is called “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9, He is presented as a suffering servant in Isaiah 53."
Exactly,this proves the point that Jesus is not Almighty God.
"He will bear our sins for us and He will provide salvation."
I don t see where it is mentionned that he would bear our sins from this passage.Could you please show it to me?
"Isaiah 53 demonstrates that the Messiah will be the means for our salvation. He will bear our sins for us and He will provide salvation."
What u presented above is the Christian translation.I'll now give u the original greek translation in the Septuagint.
The Lord also is pleased to purge him from his stroke. If ye can give an offering for sin, your soul shall see a long-lived seed: the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul, to shew him light, and to form him with understanding; to justify the just one who serves many well; and he shall bear their sins. Therefore he shall inherit many, and he shall divide the spoils of the mighty; because his soul was delivered to death: and he was numbered among the transgressors; and he bore the sins of many, and was delivered because of their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:10-12)
From the above we can see that the Christian version contains words which do not appear in the Septuagint.Septuagint Masoretic Text does not have the light of life.These words were inserted by Christians scribes.Strangely,today Christians reject the Septuagint when the New Testament writers used the Greek Septuagint, and the oldest Christian manuscripts are all in Greek.
Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." (Matthew 26:38-39)
It is very clear from the above verse in Matthew 26:39 that Jesus had no intention of dying. In this verse it is shown that Jesus was praying strongly (Matthew mentions Jesus repeating this prayer three times) to have this death removed from him. Had Jesus Christ been sent to be crucified, he would not have hesitated to be killed at all.
The scholar Ulfat-Aziz-us-Samad says:
“…To demand the price of blood in order to forgive the sins of men is to show a complete lack of mercy, and to punish a man who is not guilty for the sins of others, whether the former is willing or not, is the height of injustice.
Jesus had no foreknowledge of his failure and crucifixion. The Last Supper was a celebration with his closest disciples of his appearance as King and the imminent overthrow of the Roman power (Hyam Maccoby, Revolution in Judea: Jesus and the Jewish Resistance)
"To those Muslims who wish to exalt Mohammad above the Messiah, I ask you.Did Mohammad die for your sins? Is he the one who has made intercession for you so that you can live eternally?"
He is the one who is going to intercede in our favor on the day of judgement.
U can t prove that Jesus(peace be upon him) died for the sins of mankind,so how do u expect me to believe that?
"Therefore it is no blasphemy for Christians to consider the possibility that Jesus is also God manifested in human form."
When Jesus (peace be upon him) clearly said that God is ONE then yes,it is a blasmphemy to consider him as God.
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