Posted by Amir on 5/20/2009, 8:52 am, in reply to "Re: God's name"
41.212.201.198
" Interestingly, for many years "scholars" claimed that the book of John was a later forgery. Now we have a fragment of the book of John which is dated to the early second century, which is within 100 years of Jesus' death. Most scholars still believe that John was the last of the gospels. That means that the gospel of John was written while there were still living eyewitnesses. Indeed, the internal evidence in John shows that it was written by someone who was intimately acquainted with the lay out of Jerusalem before sit was destroyed in AD 70. The other gospels came still earlier while the authors could still interview the eyewitnesses themselves."
It is true that the 21st chapter of John says that an unknown "Disciple whom Jesus loved" testified to these things.But that chapter appears to be a later addendum to the book.The original book appears to end at John 20:30-31.
Regardless of how John 21 was written, it says only that a disciple testified to these things. The book nowhere identifies that this "Disciple Whom Jesus Loved" is John. Further, it doesn't even say this unknown disciple wrote the book, but only that he testifies to it. So we find that an unknown editor most likely added John 21, mentioning that an unknown disciple testified to the original book. This hardly counts as the author of the book identifying himself.
The problem is that the earliest writers appear to be unaware of the existence of the four gospels. How do you explain the strange absence of reference to the four gospels in the early Christian literature?
If we take Mark 13 for example,it seems to describe the times of 70AD.
"Although the book is anonymous, apart from the ancient heading "According to Mark" in manuscripts, it has traditionally been assigned to John Mark, in whose mother's house (at Jerusalem) Christians assembled. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1064)"
"Although there is no direct internal evidence of authorship, it was the unanimous testimony of the early church that this Gospel was written by John Mark. (From the NIV Bible Commentary [1], page 1488)"
"Traditionally, the gospel is said to have been written shortly before A.D. 70 in Rome, at a time of impending persecution and when destruction loomed over Jerusalem. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1064)"
"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes [1], page 1528)"
"This verse, which reads, "But if you do not forgive, neither will your heavenly Father forgive your transgressions," is omitted in the best manuscripts. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1081)"
"This passage, termed the Longer Ending to the Marcan gospel by comparison with a much briefer conclusion found in some less important manuscripts, has traditionally been accepted as a canonical part of the gospel and was defined as such by the Council of Trent. Early citations of it by the Fathers indicate that it was composed by the second century, although vocabulary and style indicate that it was written by someone other than Mark. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1088)"
"The other gospels came still earlier while the authors could still interview the eyewitnesses themselves."
Who are these eyewitnesses?
"I just quoted Jesus Himself. I can offer no stronger proof."
It all comes on how you interprete his words.
The text of the Psalm 22:16 verse doesn't explicitly say that the Messiah will actually die.It says that he will be laid on the soil of the ground with "dogs" piercing his hands and feet.The text doesn't give any indication that Christ will actually die.Psalm 22 by itself appears, on the surface, to be an impressive prophecy about Christ's crucifixion, but when one reads it in the context of the other Old Testament verses, then one would clearly see that Psalm 22 is no more than a Prayer and not a Prophecy nor a confirmation about any crucifixion of Christ. Let's put it this way: It doesn't explicitly say that Christ will ever die! Let alone be buried and then resurrect again on the third day! The way I read it is that Christ, or the Servant, will be attacked by some human-dogs, and that he is absolutely helpless and weak. He is no more than a worthless "worm," and that without the help of GOD Almighty, he won't be able to prevail. This is how I read the text. I did not see any crucifixion or resurrection, especially that the man (David) who spoke them to GOD Almighty for himself and his own aid remained alive and was never crucified, and never did he get killed by his enemies. King David died a natural death.
Hebrews 5:7
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
Psalm 91:
3.Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence.
11.For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways;
12.they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
14."Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
"Are you admitting that Jesus was in the grave for three days? If so, then you must also acknowledge that the eyewitnesses who described His crucifixion and His burial were not deceived, they actually witnesses Jesus Himself."
What i am pointing out here is a clear cut contradicyion because christians believe that Jesus was crucufied and put in the grave so how do u explain this verse?Another thing i would like to point out is that he did not fulfill this prophecy because the texts says he was crucified on friday and rose on Sunday which doesn t make it 3 days.
As a muslim i believe that one day the beloved prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) will return and destroy the evil and establish the best possible society for us to live in.Undoubtedly then we will follow him.
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