Posted by Amir on 5/19/2009, 9:56 am, in reply to "God's name"
41.212.202.56
"Amir, I believe you need to do some more research about the state of Biblical textual criticism. Your dates are way off."
Accorging to wikipedia:
Estimates for the dates when the canonical Gospel accounts were written vary significantly; and the evidence for any of the dates is scanty. Because the earliest surviving complete copies of the Gospels date to the 4th century and because only fragments and quotations exist before that, scholars use higher criticism to propose likely ranges of dates for the original gospel autographs.
As can be seen they are not sure when abu the datings and there is not even total agreement among the scholars themselves.
"Your argument is exactly why the passion of the Christ is so compelling. Jesus voluntarily let Himself be nailed to the cross."
Jesus(peace be upon him) said:For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:39)
Jonah was ALIVE IN THE BELLY OF THE HUGE FISH.so how can Jesus(peace be upon him) be DEAD IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH?
And if he wasn t dead then it means he wasn t crucified.
"Jesus voluntarily let Himself be nailed to the cross."
What for?To atone for the sins of mankind?
The Bible says no one can die for the sin of another so how can Jesus die for our sins?
"Jesus Himself had an entirely different view of the matter.
John 10:14-18
14 "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
NIV
The purpose of Jesus(peace be upon him) was not crucifixion.
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. (Matthew 18:11, KJV)
But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13)
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46)
It doesn t make sense.If it was really Jesus(peace upon him) on the cross then why would he utter such words??
How can God forsake Jesus(peace be upon him)???
"You said that "A Muslim, on the other hand, does not have such a problem." Amir, for your sake, I wish you had that problem. I don't know how you can stand to live apart from Jesus the good shepherd who loves each of us unconditionally.
John 14:6-14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father . 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father . 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran challenges the Jews and Christians to prove that only their way will lead to Salvation: "And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." (The Noble Quran, 2:111)"
Luke 10
25. On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26. "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27. He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
28. "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
No where do we see Jesus(peace be upon him) telling the man that he has to believe in trinity to inherit eternal life.
Jesus (peace be upon him) said: "I am the way and the truth and the life.
If we take the meaning of these words in the same context as Luke 10 then it shows that Jesus(peace be upon him) was talikng about the goodness in you.Hence Believing that Jesus(peace be upon him) died on the cross to purify your sins is not necessary to win Eternal Life.
John 17:
4. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
8. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.
Jesus(peace be upon him) prayed for all of those who followed him and believed in him and in the Commands that he brought to them from GOD Almighty.
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